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Post by ~¤LilacSky¤~ on Feb 11, 2006 22:36:56 GMT -5
ya know I know we have discussed this before on here somewhere, but Ive been thinking about this subject for a a few days now and I really would like your opinions on it.. so what is fate to you? do you think that if something is meant to be it will happen regardless, even if we do not take the chance at it the first time it comes around, so it comes around again, or possibly again untill we do take that direction.does this make sense??
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Post by mandala on Feb 11, 2006 23:19:25 GMT -5
I believe that death is certainly fate. Some things in one's life can't be controlled such as your birth parents, country your born into, race, economic status, and gender.
Everything else is pretty much determined by life choices. Sometimes a person may choose to leave a few minutes early to catch a bus and get hit by a car, for example. Is that fate? I think that would be an unfortunate coincidence of the car and the person being at the corner at the same time, but not fate.
Fate doesn't make sense to me. What's the point of existence at all if one's life is already planned in advance? I'm not talking about something like an arranged marriage, but when that person will die and how. Then what becomes of free will and choice?
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Post by zayin on Feb 13, 2006 11:20:48 GMT -5
Well, I think every past 'experience' tie together to make our current/future 'decisions'.
I think their is a divine path that we can become aware of and be able to follow, yet many layers of our 'teachings' stand in the way. I think there are times when our spirit knocks on our door to tell/show us 'things', yet mostly we are too busy. I think the spirit knocks louder and louder at times, but it is easy to miss these knocks while caught up in the life we've been taught. I think power gives us cubic centimeters of chance and it is our job to see them and jump on them when they appear.
I think the best way to start taking ahold of ouor own fate is to live in the moment as much as possible, without thinking too much about 'then'. When we are lost in the many dialouges of our mind, we miss the world around us. The art of 'not-doing' is a very good practise for this.
"I wish they could believe In all the things that never made the screen And just slow down everyone You're moving too fast Frames can't catch you when your moving like that" -Jack Johnson
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Post by zayin on Feb 13, 2006 12:44:32 GMT -5
I think their is a divine path that we can become aware of and be able to follow, yet many layers of our 'teachings' stand in the way. I think the hardest part is seperating our divine wishes from our self-important desires. A young lady wanted to dance her entire life. She loves the ballet and wants to be a ballerina. People laughed at her, and said she couldn't be that, and wouldn't make any money. SO she bacame a lawyer, and bought a nice new corvette. Of course she 'loved' her new car and the highly regarded job of being a lawyer, but this feeling wore off quickly, leaving her fragmented with an empty feeling inside. Now she is left with longing for her divine wishes to dance/etc and be free with her spirit. She is now left making her decisions based on the views of others. Every decision she makes based on others makes it increasingly easier to submit, and ignore her own wishes. "Well somebody's something was left in the room And man now that its gone well of course we assume That somebody else needed something so bad That they took everything that somebody had... The mark was left Man it's never the same Next time that you shoot Make sure that you aim Open windows with passing cars A brand new night With the same old stars" ~Jack Johnson
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Post by bezjak on Feb 14, 2006 11:33:56 GMT -5
Is it fate that you are who you are, or were you "programmed" to believe and do what you have become today? Did you choose your parents before "life"? How can you say if you cannot recall the "before" time? I believe that free-will and fate are more or less one in the same, but who created the need to question these things is what I ask.
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Post by nani on Feb 14, 2006 12:57:25 GMT -5
Hi bezjak: "but who created the need to question these things is what I ask."
why not the same, who also created freewill and fate!?
the source, or god or whatever you call it is supposed to be the root of all. So why you ask "who"?
love_awareness,Nani
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Post by andin on Feb 14, 2006 14:15:31 GMT -5
I believe in fate. I don't think it necessarily means that everything is already planned out for you, but I do think that some things happen for a reason. Call it fate, call it coincidence. Whatever it's called, I believe that we are meant to do or experience certain prearranged things sometime in our lifetimes. I think that it can be changed, but that's not always in our best interest. If not done in this life, then maybe the next.
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Post by bezjak on Feb 15, 2006 12:35:15 GMT -5
The "who" question that I asked may seem odd, but have you not wondered what the Unseen is for a being, what drives it, what the purpose is for it? I mean.... to honestly say that you know "who" God is....the one who gave us life, and left us with tons of instruction books (religious scripts), but no way to properly encode what was written. Maybe it was fate that had countless civilizations/languages/rituals lost through war, ignorance, and intolerance, just think of all the things that the ancients knew that we don't....I feel that lost of knowledge, but the fate of the ancients was sealed even in their own legends.(see Aztecs, Anastazi, etc). Is it fate that we as a species still make the same barbaric mistakes our forefathers made, or do "we" have the free will to change our ways? I for one have made a conscience decision never to come to this plane again after this final life, will fate allow me to do so, or is this truly a cycle where we are bound by laws that cannot be broken. I could go on but I'm sure my point has been made.
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Post by andin on Feb 15, 2006 13:58:05 GMT -5
It's a very interesting point that I think is hard to answer, if not impossible unless you are one with the ability to remember what happened before you were born. I think in a way we all know what the rules are in the whole cycle of life--death--life, whether on this plane or any other plane. Who's to say we always stay on this plane. Who's to say that ancient places no longer found are even on this plane or are from supressed memories of another life on another plane. Fate is something that already knows when the end of our cycle is determined. You just decide how long it is going to be to complete what is already fated...you either grow and learn or you draw out the inevitable.
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Post by nani on Feb 15, 2006 13:59:48 GMT -5
Hi, I agree to you, andin. bezjak, well expressed and also funny: "tons of instruction books" lol really cool and true said. I believe that this what we call fate IS the free-will, which god has given to us. So consequentely I believe that whatever was planned could be changed by men, by us. To the good or to the worse, as long as we do talk in terms of duality, means on earth. And when you say that you`ve decided to not come here on earth again, then okay, (I have said so many times too) but I believe that it is very possible that you yourself will change your opinion when you are there !!! Because, you NOW can not know what you will be thinking/ knowing/ realizing THEN. You only can assume what you would be doing then. This could become totally different. At least as of what I have heard of the ones who claim that they have been in the world between the incarnations, and from their stories it doenst matter at all what you do think or plan from here about the future. I would say, or better said, I have decided to not anymore decide anything which is not refering to the `here and now`. Even not if I will leave my home-town or not in some time. bezjak: "Is it fate that we as a species still make the same barbaric mistakes our forefathers made, or do "we" have the free will to change our ways?" For me its the "as well as". We have the chance to change our lifes and beings from a babaric race into an angel-like humankind, but its hard, and on the edge. If we would know the outcome of this "game", we wouldnt move any more finger. So finally I will say, I can understand you and your thoughts very well, and I truly believe you are totally free to decide anything at any time and with this decision(s) of course you do change and grow, love_awareness, Nani
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Post by mandala on Feb 15, 2006 19:54:25 GMT -5
Is it fate that we as a species still make the same barbaric mistakes our forefathers made, or do "we" have the free will to change our ways? I for one have made a conscience decision never to come to this plane again after this final life, will fate allow me to do so, or is this truly a cycle where we are bound by laws the cannot be broken. I could go on but I'm sure my point has been made. Interesting. It seems to me that history repeats itself. Governments and civilizations come and go, and many times it's because of destruction, either at their own hands or some others. So, the question is, will humankind ever become enlightened enough to survive without destroying itself? Or are we as a species doomed for destruction? Talk about fate!!
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Post by bezjak on Feb 16, 2006 10:53:42 GMT -5
But that's the cycle, remember "we" are truly cosmic spiritual beings, once realized that the destruction of flesh will leave us no place to "reincarnate" into, through our own hands "we" are destroying one of the many refuges that "we" have created for ourselves, slowly forcing us to "again" to start to understand who and what "we" collectively are......"we" are the controllers of dreams, masters of time and space, builders of monolithic masterpieces, students of the universe, and children of the stars, the universe grows to contain us but in the end "we" will know no boundaries, moving from one source of life to the next until "we" reach where the blue ones dwell and beyond....for that is our fate.( I remember the "before" time(s).)
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Post by Dancing Bear on Feb 16, 2006 23:37:35 GMT -5
I have found this thread fasinating and can't help but adding my two penny's worth to it. I tend to agree with most of everyones views. I beleive my Fate is mine i have chosen for me. Preplanned so to speak. A map I chose. I can choose to follow or run the other way. The freedom of choice i have as a Human. If i want to choose to move from this plane to another on a soul level, I will follow my path without diverting and dodging and denying. I also remember before and can see the after. I also plan to move on to a different plane after this one. You know my great grandfather always knew he would die on the 30th July , he never knew which year, but it was always definately 30th July . He used to walk through London whilst the Germans were bombing it and everyone else were safely down in the shelters. My Greatgrandmother nearly had several coronaries, worrying about him. He would say to her But it is not the 30th July , And if it so happened he was wrong with the numbers and the next bomb had 307 on it, it would be his time and there was absolutely nothing he could do about it. After each 30th July and he was still alive he would renew his life insurance for another year. He never ever feared death, just accepted it as part of the cycle. He died on 30th JUly 1955. I have always been in awe with little stories I have heard about this man. As a family we all pretty much have a beleif system stemming in main part from this courageous and insightful man. He truly beleive his fate was mapped and he was powerless to stop his time when it came. Dancing Bear.
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Post by crazycat on Feb 17, 2006 1:27:13 GMT -5
I believe in fate up to a point, but if everything was written in stone and no amount of our striving could really change things, then what would be the point of us being here. The way I see it free will is a gift from our creator gave to all of us humans. He made us co-creators with him. To be creative one has to have free will. We are here to learn how to use that gift. So if we just set back and say "oh well" with what ever comes are way and Say that's fate, we can't do anything about it, then we are setting aside our God given gift and excepting every wind that blow. All those life obstacles are placed there for us to practice our co-creative abilities on.... I do believe mankind will catch on and learn to use those creative powers to turn our world/home into a paradise/heaven.... Hehe! For it is written!!!! Preordained by our Divine parents.
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Post by nani on Feb 17, 2006 12:47:29 GMT -5
dancingbear, this is very touching about your grandfather.. of course it touches me out of several reasons, as a german Im still working with the past cause I and many of my friends believe that we can heal things only if we look at them deeply, not suppress anything cause of guiltyness.. and also I have a grandma who has that similar wise&strong attitude. 2 weeks before her 99th birthday she decided to die, stopped talking then eating then drinking and finally died like a red indian or like one would imagine a proud japanese sebuko-warrior, just uprightly sitting facing death.. this was amazing, she was very special too. Yeahs I think we really can be in awe knowing and being close to such people.. love_awareness, Nani
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Post by ~¤LilacSky¤~ on Feb 17, 2006 12:50:25 GMT -5
wow lots of great insights from all of you!! thanks! ya know Im still pondering this though, perhaps its safe to say it exists if we beleive in it..but I often do see patterns in my life that shows something is at work beneath the surface..hmm
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kellyboy
Seeker
How do you prove that you exist!? Maybe we dont exist....?
Posts: 95
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Post by kellyboy on Feb 20, 2006 8:09:45 GMT -5
Ive never really thought about fate....heres some quick thoughts while reading. ~¤LilacSky¤~ : do you think that if something is meant to be it will happen regardless, even if we do not take the chance at it the first time it comes around, so it comes around again, or possibly again untill we do take that direction.does this make sense?? Yes i think it may, but maybe not in the way shape or form that you may think!?! (I hope that makes sense) mandala: I believe that death is certainly fate. Some things in one's life can't be controlled such as your birth parents, country your born into, race, economic status, and gender. Maybe we choose into our lives before our lives, ive thought about this sometimes. I think maybe i chose to take this life form because of a reason? So far in my life from an early age ive helped out my parents in numerous things, and i always beleive a lil tht i was put here for them maybe. mandala: Everything else is pretty much determined by life choices. Sometimes a person may choose to leave a few minutes early to catch a bus and get hit by a car, for example. Is that fate? I think that would be an unfortunate coincidence of the car and the person being at the corner at the same time, but not fate.
Fate doesn't make sense to me. What's the point of existence at all if one's life is already planned in advance? I'm not talking about something like an arranged marriage, but when that person will die and how. Then what becomes of free will and choice? Maybe it was fate to get hit by the car, relating to my last remark, maybe u have fulfilled everything you were meant to in this life so its time (fate) that it ends. andin: I believe in fate. I don't think it necessarily means that everything is already planned out for you, but I do think that some things happen for a reason. Call it fate, call it coincidence. Whatever it's called, I believe that we are meant to do or experience certain prearranged things sometime in our lifetimes. I think that it can be changed, but that's not always in our best interest. If not done in this life, then maybe the next. Agreed! This also relates to what i mentioned earlier, thinking about it now i think alot of, if not all metaphysical (maybe wrong word, u guys remember im bad with words ) things are related. ie: Maybe karma in one way is connected in a way where it makes it easier or harder for you to reach your fate. dancingbear: I have always been in awe with little stories I have heard about this man. As a family we all pretty much have a beleif system stemming in main part from this courageous and insightful man. He truly beleive his fate was mapped and he was powerless to stop his time when it came.
Awesome, maybe he was well tuned into his higher self and knew, this kind of also relates to what i(and quite a few of you believe). I often think about(call me crazy) about how things are affected (ithink this is the same as what the Merovingian said in Matrix 2 wih "cuase and effect"). Like for example, lets say i stay at home today in my house with no human contact. I probably wouldnt affect too many people. But lets say i go out. Just by pressing the botton to walk across the street i beleive can change SOOO many lives. Very tiny example: one of the cars would have collided with someone who was running a red, but becuase i pressed the botton things turned out different. Maybe thats all i was put here for to save someones life one day while crossing the street. Just my thoughts. Cheers Kelly
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Post by mandala on Feb 20, 2006 9:02:45 GMT -5
But lets say i go out. Just by pressing the botton to walk across the street i beleive can change SOOO many lives. Very tiny example: one of the cars would have collided with someone who was running a red, but becuase i pressed the botton things turned out different. Maybe thats all i was put here for to save someones life one day while crossing the street. Just my thoughts. Cheers Kelly That's kind of a positive spin to my "getting hit by a bus." Nice! I tend to be too pessimistic.
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Post by Dancing Bear on Feb 20, 2006 17:19:30 GMT -5
Well Done Kelly You summed up a lot of my own thoughts. Yes Cause and Effect I beleive gets the ball rolling within the realm of Fate and Destiny. Have you ever seen the Movie the Butterfly Effect. Very interesting movie definate example of Cause and Effect and Destiny. I'm not so sure about Fate, I'd have to think on it a bit more. Yes I beleive Fate works underneath the surface, Sometimes we notice it as small ripples moving beneath, At other times in great big Waves Rocking the Surface, especially when we are to take notice. I beleive Fate is Fixed, It is our Destiny we have absolute Control. Dancing Bear
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Post by Anise on Feb 21, 2006 11:00:12 GMT -5
Fate is what you make of it. We are all here to experience our soul's desire. Our soul chooses what is is to experience at any given time. Our soul chooses the life we are here to live, our birth parents, our general map throughout life. We can not avoid what our soul is after. If we try to ignore or avoid it, it (situation) will return to us. Perhaps not the same way we encountered it before but it will come back until we pay attention to it. That is fate. We can either choose to work with or against the soul. Either way we will encounter whatever the soul wishes. It may not be in this life but sooner or later the soul will be heard.
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