Jesus ASKED Judas ?

[sxy]

Did ...Jesus ASK Judas ?

I found the show interesting , though it reminded me of the Dan Brown ideas...? ( Da Vinci Codes )

Again and again I hear and read about these mysteries that Jesus only told the few, that of the mysteries of the heavens.

Why was it always in parables and not clear, only the smart could understand..? only the ones that questioned his words ?

Why make it a mystery >>?

Jesusonce gave the answer to one one his disciples that he had to teach in parable to follow that of previous prophecies of him, that he would teach in Parables ..?humm...
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0406_060406_judas.html

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0406_060406_gospel.html


~SXY~

[osiris]

"To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of god, but to the rest it is given in parables, that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand". This Jesus explained to his disciples.
Why? I dont know for sure. Because during this time it was dangerous to show any but the truest believers.
Because only through yourself will you ever be saved not by any single religion. ( The seven major religions each hold one of the keys to enlightenment). So if any religion may turn out to be "fallen" they will not alone hold the keys.
I dont know for sure but those are my opinions above.
I do know that the script that just surfaced recently is supposed to be as big if not a bigger deal than the dead sea scrolls. Thats hard to believe considering the Dead sea scrolls contained a copy of the book of Enoch.

[sxy]

THANKS; osiris... yes I have read this , I am well versed in a few religions,....but not all have the same GOD .



;;;;( The seven major religions each hold one of the keys to enlightenment). ;;;??



Now a days > We hear the Muslums speek of GOD ; That is not the same GOD of the Christians..!


The Muslum GOD is a moon GOD....why ?

>.."And beware, lest you lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven." Deut 4:19
"and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded" Deut 17:3
"For he rebuilt the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; and he erected altars for Baal and made an Asherah, as Ahab king of Israel had done, and worshiped all the host of heaven and served them." 2 Kings 21:3
"And he did away with the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had appointed to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah and in the surrounding area of Jerusalem, also those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and to the moon and to the constellations and to all the host of heaven." 2 Kings 23:5
"And they will spread them out to the sun, the moon, and to all the host of heaven, which they have loved, and which they have served, and which they have gone after, and which they have sought, and which they have worshiped." Jer 8:2
"And the houses of Jerusalem and the houses of the kings of Judah will be defiled like the place Topheth, because of all the houses on whose rooftops they burned sacrifices to all the heavenly host and poured out libations to other gods." Jer 19:13
"And those who bow down on the housetops to the host of heaven" Zeph 1:5

www.biblebelievers.org.au/islam.htm


~SXY~

[osiris]

All of the stars and planets are differant gods. And from what i understand there is a star for every human. There should be no worship of any being that lived before other than Jesus. We ourselves are brothers and sisters in the likeness of god. But no group or single being in history should be worshipped. Ra,Osiris,Mercury,venus, just to name a few. They may be beings that ascended to godhood or angelic beings or daemonic beings i dont know but i know that they are not to be worshipped. That does not mean you cannot learn important lessons from any of them. Many if you study history were kings from the past. And that is why it is so hard for me to believe the bible is undisturbed and still in its intended state.
From what i understand the muslim god is the same as ours and the majority of the rest of the worlds religions have the same god. The problem arises after god when you get into the bibles and Jesus thats where most of the religious arguments arise from.

[crazycat]

The way I see it there is only one source which is unknowable and the one source is the God of all. The problem is that of people worshiping things and other beings rather than the one source.

Jesus, said of himself that he was the son of God, and one with the father, our messiah/savior, the word of God made flesh. He states many times that he and the father are one, but never said he was the Father/God source. John the Baptist declared him to be the lamb who takes away the sins of the world and that he was the son of God.

Jesus said himself, in the bible in his own words, for us not to worship him, but to worship the the Pure Source that sent him.

To me there is a difference in being one with another and in being that some one. To me it means that you are so like that person (ex: such as being identical twins) that you could not tell one from the other, but the identical twins are not the same entity even though they are identical. Jesus is the exact mirror image of the Pure Source, to the point that we have mistaken him as that Source. He is God in a human form. Going by the bible we are all to become mirror images. Jesus himself stated that we are to be holy/pure as the Father in Heaven is Holy.

There have only been two human beings created with out sin in our known human history. That would be the first Adam and the second Adam who is the man Jesus.

I know going by the bible Eve was supposedly the first to sin...but Ha!... I don't see it that way. It was Adam who looked upon the animal kingdom and saw that the Source had created them different with the male and female being created as separate beings. So he no longer was happy with the way he was created and ask the Father to make him as two separate beings and the the Father who had created him will free will did just as he asked. Well, 'lo and behold,' one day he decides to go off and do his own thing and left his creative self to do her own things and the world of duality was the results of that big, big mistake. Hehe! In a way it's been kind of a fun and interesting ride...don't you think?

To get back to the subject of the two humans created without sin. The second Adam/Jesus, even though he was tempted just as much if not more so (for he was tempted unto death) than the first Adam, but was able to stay in his pure state and because of that he became the Savior of the world, the sacrificial lamb, who's blood takes away our sin. He was able to become exactly what the Creator Source created him to be. Even unto death no fault/sin was found in him.
Because of that, he became the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords even over Buddha and Krishna or any of the others who attained enlightenment in their on power. Even though these were mighty men, I don't believe they attained pure complete godhood. I don't know about much the Buddha story, but I have read about Krishna, who's story is similar to to the Christ story, but he did not lay down his life of his own accord and became a Savior of men and he did not rise from the dead. The following tell how he died.

Following the war Krishna dwelt at Dwaraka for 36 years. Then at a festival, a fight broke out between the Yadavas who exterminated each other. The clan now mostly destroyed, his elder brother Balarama too gave up his body using Yoga. Krishna retired into the forest and sat under a tree in meditation. A hunter mistook his partly visible foot for a deer and shot an arrow wounding him mortally. The Mahabharata (Mausala Parva) says: (The hunter) ...Regarding himself an offender, and filled with fear, he touched the feet of Keshava. The high-souled one comforted him and then ascended up-wards, filling the entire sky with splendour. ...the illustrious Narayana of fierce energy, the Creator and Destroyer of all, that preceptor of Yoga, filling Heaven with his splendour, reached his own inconceivable region.

Jesus stands at your heart's door and knocks day and night. All who opens the door and let him in and excepts him as their savior, to him he give the keys to the Kingdom of God. If you want to reach true godhood it will have to be through the gift of God that was given you, not through your own works. That gift is the gift of salvation, which is the one and same ..Jesus Christ. He is truly the only way, just as the bible says. We can not take away our own sin, no matter how good at reality creation, prayer, meditation or anything else you become. Yes, we can use these tools to create a better life here in the physical world, but none of those magic things will fix the core problem. They will not set your free from this duality world. All these do is relieve you of some of your suffering and pain, or better said; help you to manage it better.

Hehe! I felt like doing a little preaching tonight. Forgive me if I offended anyone. I do love all you guys and want you to attain godhood and be set free.

Getting back to the Judas subject... I believe Judas did just exactly what Jesus asked of him, but when it was all over and done with I think Judas in his grief maybe began to have doubts about it all and maybe even entertain the thoughts that maybe he had misunderstood Jesus.... and the guilt and grief over came him to the point he committed suicide. I can visualize that scenario easily. Judas was condemned, not because he betrayed Jesus, for that was his purpose. He was condemn, the only disciple who didn't attain sainthood, because in his grief and pain he lost faith.

[animal]

I love reading this stuff, and thank you, for posting.

I find this stuff brings incredible insights/shifts. Its kinda like 'role playing' different dimensions! hehe..

I think we are born free of sin, and that we build a simple idea, of what sin 'is'. Basically I see sin as a doubt of the worst kind. A baggage, or debt, developed from not listening to our knowing, and Love. I see sin as guilt, that is unforgiven, and 'anchor of doubt'. I see sin as an emotional drain, based on what we were taught is 'wrong'. To be in the 'moment', is to be in the now, free from all past 'sin', or debt. To be in the now, requires no forgiveness, in my mind, only action. I have been 'forced' to move from my past, because the past is Death, and it can kill. Freedom, for me, is without sin. I think the biggest sin, is to doubt our Love and potential.

[crazycat]

That is an interesting concept Animal, but the wages of sin is death. From the every moment we are born we began our journey to death's door. Whether one lives their whole life in the moment in an awakened state or in asleep state, or future or past, we all end up at that same death's door eventually. And if one believes in reincarnation we repeat it over and over and over again.

But the good news is that in the bible it does says we will conquer death 'our last enemy' eventually. I look forward to that. But not the way the scientific world is going. They are trying to figure out a way to put our consciousness into a machine.... I don't want no part of that.

[osiris]

Yes you all have great info. I know that followers of islam believe in the one god, but they also believe in Jesus just not in the same way as Christians do. They believe him a prophet and that Mohamed (spelling) is there savior. Mohamed being the first prophet and the last to leave. S if we are all headed in the same direction just differant paths why does Christianity hate so much? And why are we killing over religion? I do apologize as well if i stepped on any toes but sometimes its the only way to get anything accomplished.

[crazycat]

osiris said:

Yes you all have great info. I know that followers of islam believe in the one god, but they also believe in Jesus just not in the same way as Christians do. They believe him a prophet and that Mohamed (spelling) is there savior. Mohamed being the first prophet and the last to leave. S if we are all headed in the same direction just differant paths why does Christianity hate so much? And why are we killing over religion? I do apologize as well if i stepped on any toes but sometimes its the only way to get anything accomplished.

Osiris, the way I see it, this Christianity hate thing is propaganda in the news, which the power that be (the Illuminati) is behind all that, trying to rile people against one another. They have use religions in that way from the beginning. It is a tool they use for controlling. The Christian people are just as loving, caring, gentle, and peaceful as any of the rest of the people in any other religion. I don't know, maybe the Christian community was getting so big that it became a threat to them, who knows why they chose this religion to be the scrapgoat this time around.

I know many christian people and I do not see any of them as being hateful. Maybe a little defensive because they have been under attack for some time. There are some maybe in the upper rings that may have somewhat of an uppity attitude about them, but on the most part they are loving and caring. There is much good done on a daily basis in the name of christianity, but of course that never gets put in the news. It is only/mostly the corrupt TV type christianity that is broadcast for the world to see and the way I see that is that, this type is not true christianity at all, but a fake make money business scheme thing.


From the way you speak, I would say you are from the Islam religion. Did you know many Christian Americans could ask the same question as you did but in reverse. The Islams worship the one true God too, so why do they hate us so much? Many American believe that Islam people were behind the 9/11 attack, but I don't believe that at for a minute. That was another thing done by the 'powers that be' solely for the purpose of causing strife between the two peoples as a way to arrange a war to happen. Us little pinions are not going to ever now the reason why, we are just their little pieces in their chess game to be manipulated.

[sxy]

WOW ~ CRaZyCAt~ ......Thankyou , I can rest easy that I will see you in Heaven,... Your passion for getting this told in a clean and simple manner, truth is hard to read ...!!!

I am so pleased that you did make the effort to write this , we all need to be reminded now and again.

My cheers to those who also take the moment to read your post; and get the message ,

eyes to see; ears to hear.....

The way I see it there is only one source which is unknowable and the one source is the God of all. The problem is that of people worshiping things and other beings rather than the one source.

Jesus, said of himself that he was the son of God, and one with the father, our messiah/savior, the word of God made flesh. He states many times that he and the father are one, but never said he was the Father/God source. John the Baptist declared him to be the lamb who takes away the sins of the world and that he was the son of God.

Jesus said himself, in the bible in his own words, for us not to worship him, but to worship the the Pure Source that sent him.

To me there is a difference in being one with another and in being that some one. To me it means that you are so like that person (ex: such as being identical twins) that you could not tell one from the other, but the identical twins are not the same entity even though they are identical. Jesus is the exact mirror image of the Pure Source, to the point that we have mistaken him as that Source. He is God in a human form. Going by the bible we are all to become mirror images. Jesus himself stated that we are to be holy/pure as the Father in Heaven is Holy.

There have only been two human beings created with out sin in our known human history. That would be the first Adam and the second Adam who is the man Jesus.

I know going by the bible Eve was supposedly the first to sin...but Ha!... I don't see it that way. It was Adam who looked upon the animal kingdom and saw that the Source had created them different with the male and female being created as separate beings. So he no longer was happy with the way he was created and ask the Father to make him as two separate beings and the the Father who had created him will free will did just as he asked. Well, 'lo and behold,' one day he decides to go off and do his own thing and left his creative self to do her own things and the world of duality was the results of that big, big mistake. Hehe! In a way it's been kind of a fun and interesting ride...don't you think?

To get back to the subject of the two humans created without sin. The second Adam/Jesus, even though he was tempted just as much if not more so (for he was tempted unto death) than the first Adam, but was able to stay in his pure state and because of that he became the Savior of the world, the sacrificial lamb, who's blood takes away our sin. He was able to become exactly what the Creator Source created him to be. Even unto death no fault/sin was found in him.
Because of that, he became the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords even over Buddha and Krishna or any of the others who attained enlightenment in their on power. Even though these were mighty men, I don't believe they attained pure complete godhood. I don't know about much the Buddha story, but I have read about Krishna, who's story is similar to to the Christ story, but he did not lay down his life of his own accord and became a Savior of men and he did not rise from the dead. The following tell how he died.

Following the war Krishna dwelt at Dwaraka for 36 years. Then at a festival, a fight broke out between the Yadavas who exterminated each other. The clan now mostly destroyed, his elder brother Balarama too gave up his body using Yoga. Krishna retired into the forest and sat under a tree in meditation. A hunter mistook his partly visible foot for a deer and shot an arrow wounding him mortally. The Mahabharata (Mausala Parva) says: (The hunter) ...Regarding himself an offender, and filled with fear, he touched the feet of Keshava. The high-souled one comforted him and then ascended up-wards, filling the entire sky with splendour. ...the illustrious Narayana of fierce energy, the Creator and Destroyer of all, that preceptor of Yoga, filling Heaven with his splendour, reached his own inconceivable region.

Jesus stands at your heart's door and knocks day and night. All who opens the door and let him in and excepts him as their savior, to him he give the keys to the Kingdom of God. If you want to reach true godhood it will have to be through the gift of God that was given you, not through your own works. That gift is the gift of salvation, which is the one and same ..Jesus Christ. He is truly the only way, just as the bible says. We can not take away our own sin, no matter how good at reality creation, prayer, meditation or anything else you become. Yes, we can use these tools to create a better life here in the physical world, but none of those magic things will fix the core problem. They will not set your free from this duality world. All these do is relieve you of some of your suffering and pain, or better said; help you to manage it better.

Hehe! I felt like doing a little preaching tonight. Forgive me if I offended anyone. I do love all you guys and want you to attain godhood and be set free.

Getting back to the Judas subject... I believe Judas did just exactly what Jesus asked of him, but when it was all over and done with I think Judas in his grief maybe began to have doubts about it all and maybe even entertain the thoughts that maybe he had misunderstood Jesus.... and the guilt and grief over came him to the point he committed suicide. I can visualize that scenario easily. Judas was condemned, not because he betrayed Jesus, for that was his purpose. He was condemn, the only disciple who didn't attain sainthood, because in his grief and pain he lost faith.
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2006, 11:12pm by crazycat »

No matter why ..! he did it anyway , and then killed himself..!

Jesus told that he knew it was Judas, at that point Judas may not have known himself ..? or was planning it ..?

As Jesus told of the betrayal,... he was setting Judas up to fail at his betrayal , so to follow through with his crucification , Judas had to follow through with knowing that Jesus knew he was going to do it .

I believe that if this was true Jesus would have had to tell or "ask" Judas to fulfill his betrayal...thus in the end .....sad and alone.((?__)))

"SON OF MAN" & "SON OF GOD"

;


adding to this topic, read more about "SON OF MAN"


**** Study of;*****

debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/sonofman.htm

****


~SXY~

[crazycat]

www9.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/document.html

You can download and read what was saved of the Gospel of Judas from the above web page. It said they were able to save most of that gospel but all they have there is 7 uncompleted pages and it seems to me at points were it was begining to be interesting they conviently had missing lines and all. After reading this, am finding it hard to believe that is a real gospel and not something partially made up by someone. MHO!

I'm beginning to believe it is just a propoganda ploy like some others.

[dman]

IMO, Jesus could look into anyone and see the pure source in them.

I have heard this said as well; An ordinary person can look at another ordinary person, and they will see an ordinary person. However, when a Buddha looks at an ordinary person, they see another Buddha. They way I see it is a Buddha can look directly into the spirit, and call it out.

Jesus being close with Judas, could have taught Judas everything he knew, without Judas ever knowing, or ever remembering what he was shown. Jesus, in the name of His Father, and acceptance from Judas' spirit, could have 'enabled' Judas to act in the way he did, forgetting even 'why' afterwards.

Maybe this is what is said, I don't know, but it is what I think.

[dman]

crazycat said:

That is an interesting concept Animal, but the wages of sin is death. From the every moment we are born we began our journey to death's door. Whether one lives their whole life in the moment in an awakened state or in asleep state, or future or past, we all end up at that same death's door eventually. And if one believes in reincarnation we repeat it over and over and over again.

Do you really want to live this life over and over, endlessly? I think there is a point to this life, to transcend, every moment. I am not saying we are free to sin, I believe in impecibilty, or, to be aware of/in the moment. In my mind, if one is not impecible, they easily create their own unimaginable 'Hell'. I think as we become more aware, we have more control over what controls us. I see every moment as reincarnation, a new beginning, or, if you like, every moment being a new quantum reality. Sounds out there, I know, but I have seen people turn into someone else completely, as if the moments before never existed. Friends to enemies, enemies to friends, all based on what we hold inside, or, what we send out. A mere 'second's' 'passing', in between, one can forget everything told to them. Yet if we allow another, to remember, then they will. I see a place where we can allow harmony. To accept everyone as Buddhas, to flow together, to transcend together. Well, at least this is my dream anyways.

[crazycat]

The above post of mine I was speaking of the physical body which faces death from the time it is born.Of course, I believe our higher self or soul is eternal.

As long as we are in a physical body we are still living in a fallen state ruled by our 5 senses. Death is being conquer though and we will all be transformed into immortal bodies not made of flesh soon I hope. You know what they say, we are not our physical bodies, but are more or less trapped in one until the end of this age. I just made a long post over on the reincarnation thread of D. Bear's in the OW Lounge section, if you are interested. It is what Edgar Cayce says about all this.

[Eagle]

Control verses Anarchy! to stop Anarchy one needs to form control. How does one control a mass of people e.g. 1,000,000 people or 10,000,000 or even 1,000,000,000 people ? Governance ! with small groups of people, trible religon forms the law. And so through out the globe at different stages in time, different religons (laws) popped up grew, some failed e.g. through war, death of a leader (which can create a power vacum for other religons/believes to take control) or the change of peoples conception of what type of governance suits them (riots)(Governemnts worse nightmare). For whatever reason, some believes became stronger and others weak, just because so many people believe that the world was flat did'nt make it so, it took one person to believe differently, to start a new way of thinking. As we have experinced so far is a shift of control from religons to monitory control or more methodical methods of governance. Other groups of people still hang on to what they believe and don't want to change, and in the form of governance exerting control through fear or over control has and will lead to their colapse. To control a population, some people think that control means total and/or absolute control, controling a polpulation is a balance between Control and Anarchy, and I don't mean 50/50, Anarchy seems to be heavy, and therefore more control is nesseccary to balance the equation, which is not easy, flexability in governance is best suited as it can change with the time and enviroment. I think Confuses said; "Nature has a way of breaking things that do not bend with the wind". how many religons are in the world ? not as many as there use to be. So what are the new religons ? What are going to be the next religons ? which religon will win the war if their religon is the only one ? the anwser tends to lead to against Anceint religons that fight for control of the masses. How can we as humans live together with out killing each other over different believes ? Is it a lack of direction ?, a direction that all man kind can work towards and not against, that maybe our saviour. Putting books in the hands where guns use to lay could be a good start. One thing that stands out from the bible when I think of did Jesus ask Judas, is, and it is written, 'it does'nt matter'. Its been and gone, here and now is where we are, stuck on this beatiful blue pearl in the middle of space, the 3rd rock from the sun, in the galaxy called the milky way, which has a billion or so stars (suns), there are a billion other galaxies that we can see. don't get me wrong I love history, I've studied the evolution of the bible, the different version adapting to the times, its origins before and after being written and its destination. To keep things in prospective and objective, it's just another book on religon to me. I do have a philosiphy, that, 'to know where your going you need to know where you come from'. So SXY do you know where your going and why ?

[hiddenghost]

There were dark things happening to Jesus in the bible that give the story a feel of respect. Jesus would have had an entire life though. That would make him like any other person. He would have been doing the dirty work like every other regular person in the market place.

Some of my favorite parts in the new testament were when followers asked him to perform miracles and Jesus scolded them for not doing the miracles themselves. The story of Jesus is better as a whole but these parts of his story give me a better feel for what he was about than any other part.

[sxy]

Yes, I too feel we can perform miracles .

~SXY~

[daphne]

sxy said:

Why was it always in parables and not clear, only the smart could understand..? only the ones that questioned his words ?

Why make it a mystery >>?

~SXY~

Parables are pretty much like metaphors... they can bypass the mind's need for rationality. In that way, that which is behind the words (for words themselves are symbols) can seep through into the unconscious.
Problem with anything is when it becomes dogma, or belief. The mind latches on to the surface meaning and starts spinning its own rationality for it all. Not to say we shouldn't have beliefs.. but like anything else, I believe (lol - and there's a belief!) that beliefs, like anything else need to be constantly examined and updated. The action of examining keeps us fluid and open to new and different expereince.
Some will talke stories very literal, others will see meaning in stories, but which ever what way, it helps to know what the unconscious actually accepts and believes, as it is in there (so to speak) that our creative power is held - the 'conscious' aspect of our mind being rather the director but not the writer.. though as director it can reprogram the unconscious.

For me it is not about being "smart" to understand - intelligence itself is rather rigidly defined. Rather it is about the degree of connection between the conscious and unconscious mind that can then intuit the understanding given in the parables.

[altairyard]

Apr 11, 2006 20:07:43 GMT -5 sxy said:

Now a days > We hear the Muslums speek of GOD ; That is not the same GOD of the Christians..!


The Muslum GOD is a moon GOD....why ?

>.."And beware, lest you lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven." Deut 4:19
"and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded" Deut 17:3
"For he rebuilt the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; and he erected altars for Baal and made an Asherah, as Ahab king of Israel had done, and worshiped all the host of heaven and served them." 2 Kings 21:3
"And he did away with the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had appointed to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah and in the surrounding area of Jerusalem, also those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and to the moon and to the constellations and to all the host of heaven." 2 Kings 23:5
"And they will spread them out to the sun, the moon, and to all the host of heaven, which they have loved, and which they have served, and which they have gone after, and which they have sought, and which they have worshiped." Jer 8:2
"And the houses of Jerusalem and the houses of the kings of Judah will be defiled like the place Topheth, because of all the houses on whose rooftops they burned sacrifices to all the heavenly host and poured out libations to other gods." Jer 19:13
"And those who bow down on the housetops to the host of heaven" Zeph 1:5

www.biblebelievers.org.au/islam.htm


~SXY~

we never worshiped a moon...Why does my prophet cut the moon if we worshiped a moon ?. Nor, the sun. Or any material beings. We only worship god. One god..Not have a child, nor have a parents.

Moon is just..You know. Satellite Of our planet.

Last..We never worship anything, but Allah.