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Post by ~¤LilacSky¤~ on Jan 29, 2011 17:05:04 GMT -5
this is a very harsh question you guys but i wanna know is it oay to kill yourself?? take your own life??? I want your input pls... alot of folks say, its not due to others around you, one person said your taking experiences away from others that you would normally have with them...ugh... but I argued the fact that is is your life and what if you feel the time is near anyway, and your heart is full, full of love, acceptance, truth and everything that makes you feel nervana..........is it really wrong to take your own life...knowing you have overcome all there is to come in life, which is fear itself....... and if you find a place of comfort in your own self............is it really a bad thing.. i was told also why stop just because you have come to peace within yourself , perhaps your mission is to teach that on and on......... lots of things to think about here. truth is what if someone feels ready and have outgrown the physical life???
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lightdreamer
Seeker
Dreams are experiences of the Soul
Posts: 30
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Post by lightdreamer on Jan 29, 2011 23:00:39 GMT -5
I feel ,like so many other things in life, it really depends on your intent. What are your motives BEHIND the action, ya know? If your motives are pure, that is if your intent is impeccable then, yes it is ok.
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Post by mandala on Jan 30, 2011 11:54:25 GMT -5
If you're a young, healthy individual but just depressed, then NO! Get help, talk to people, and find something to get out of bed for.
I look at it this way, when I'm feeling "what's the use?" and have thoughts of ending it all, I think, well...why not keep on keeping on and see what happens down the road? A healthy person has 2 choices: end it all, or seek other options and keep on going. I've chose this for myself because things ALWAYS turn around for the better.
Ronni, the fact that you posted this is a red flag. It tells me you may be thinking of the topic in more than just as a curious observer. If this is so, please seek alternatives. You won't regret it. Things will get better. Suicide should never be an option except in cases of terminal illness with chronic physical pain.
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Post by ~~section8... on Feb 5, 2011 12:33:10 GMT -5
The thing is, you're not just taking away your own life. You leave behind all the people that loved you and depended on you. In a sense, it's a selfish act. If a young person kills themself because of an "internal peace," it's a bit strange and abnormal to me. Now if you're battling a terminal illness and find your peace and don't want to fight anymore, I still don't think it's suicide, it's more allowing your body to return to the earth again. Killing yourself is something entirely different than naturally allowing your body to return to Earth. It's going against the universal flow because you're not supposed to die.
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Post by Dancing Bear on Feb 6, 2011 2:31:45 GMT -5
I have just witnessed my grandmother Kill herself.. She passed away 7th January 2011. My Grandmother foudn out just before Christmas she had inoperapable Liver and Bowel Cancer. the only symptoms she had was liek a belly bug and Nausea about 3 weeks prior.
When she found out it could not be operated on , she knew what this type of Cancer can do. She didnt want to prolong her life, just to live in pain.
She belonged to the society where they are fighting to make euthanasia legal for certain cases. Obviously because Gran doesnt walk on four legs and have fur, She would have to endure this Cancer and all its wrath until the bitter end. She knew if she stopped eating, she would die sooner. So thats what she did. She took 3 weeks to starve herself to death. It was horrible and a cruel death. If i was able to give her an injection to stop all that suffering , I would have!
So yes i do believe in killing yourself in certain circumstances..
When the person is a teenager( or any other age for that matter) and life gets too ahrd for them.. I think it is so sad when they take their own lives, because no problem is too bad that it cant be fixed, and if they only realise they are never ever alone and there is always someone to help and listen, ( even if family cant) That is when i dont agree with it..The person is Physically healthy But mentally depressed NO!
But if a person is going through what my Gran did Or my Uncle 6 years ago with Bone Cancer who pleaded for the nurses to kill him, he had to put into a Coma to help stop the pain. Every time he came out, all you could hear was his screams. It is heart wrenching. That is when i say Yes!!
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Post by labell on Feb 7, 2011 12:48:25 GMT -5
I think while it can be a tragic thing to 'lose' someone you love, it has potential to be even more tragic if I were to judge another's action of suicide. I believe in forgiveness, and maintaining a loving, peaceful and clean conscience. As i see it, when one travels the boundaries of life and death, one dies, entering into the afterworlds, life continues trough this 'barrier'. It has seemed at times that intending to travel this barrier was in fact commiting suicide, however time moves on in motion, because of both life and death, or renewal. a point to remember here, i think, is what does make something 'wrong' besides the awareness of right or wrong, and yet if one intends to see, as curiousity can be, they may find answers either supporting or condemning the act. this itself is a path of ones life, accumilating and enchancing the life being lived by the awareness poccessed. if one obtains, through fears, doubts, self-judgements, negative experiences and reactions, is it wrong to move past them, into a new life?? you still are a being as you lived, but you are free from living in the past ways, is that wrong?? hypothetically one could say that one needs to work through them in this life through this or that means, yet whatever way they choose IS their way, their spirit. At any time is available any way and any choice. If you say that one day you are going to die through 'natural' causes or a freak accident etc etc, is that NOT suicide?? You have made the choice to end your life.. is that wrong?? life does evolve and move and change, beyond a human understanding into a 'spiritual path', in my view, as per my choice. Some enlightened ones say that one can choose their exact death, and their exact afterlife, and some say that the path of life is just that all together, a journey, a choice. tricky spot..
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Post by ~~section8... on Feb 10, 2011 18:10:10 GMT -5
I agree with you Dancing Bear.
Labell, you're right we have our "own" path. But what about our family's path? Our ancestor's path? The people that we love. We have a path with them as well. If you end your life, you rip a part of your family's path apart...and your ancestor's and your loved ones. It's selfish to think that they are just "losing" someone and they'll just be able to move on.
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Post by labell on Feb 11, 2011 15:36:43 GMT -5
I would say rather that it is selfless.. and on the otherhand extremely selfish for one to torture themselves or ther loved ones by attempting to force something on them.. selfish for the person to not intend and seek a better place.. what if the family boasting the son is useless, crazy insane, stupid, and all other known curses, would it then not be a relief of burden, having such a pathetic individual around? A relief!!!! hooray then, let them rejoice!!!! personally i would rather go down in flames, then to be captive to a sick family. i would burn all the chains to my family, especially since having been disowned and repeatedly abandoned by my own, what chains would be said to have hold of me, from them??? well what i have found is that one can disown reality, completely leaving it behind, to remake another seperate form the first.. to each their own,,, what is harm is in that??? afterall if no-one can decide on an order, a useful order supporting community as whole and equal, then i say let chaos reign, and let the fires sort it out.
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Post by labell on Feb 11, 2011 15:38:43 GMT -5
if you saw a 'pet 'who was repeatedly beaten and raped by its 'owners', would you not hope and pray for that dog to get away, free?? would you scorn the dog if it bit the 'owners'?? just a question.
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Post by Dancing Bear on Feb 18, 2011 1:42:46 GMT -5
OK Labell!! I get it what you are trying to say "I Think"?
Lets put it this way , The scenario of some poor soul being beaten, ridiculed, raped, and all the other horrid stuff,,
Lets look at it another way.. What if that child who grew up in that household was going through an initiation, an initiation to do good in life, Instead of turining out the same way and repeating all what he/she has gone through? What if that time in childhood as horrific as it is , and mentally confusing , and the scars digging deep as it all can be. What if that part of their childhood, was meant to be, in such a way that this child turns their life around. And become a healer themselves, As you know we need more lightworkers on this planet.
I have a friedn who is slowly dying and has gone through a childhood i wouldnt wish upon anybody. She asks one day "why Me?" I said to her, Imagine one of your friends going through the same. Would they have turned out like you? NO was the answer. This frind of mine has the biggest heart i have come accross, all the love to give in the world, and i am glad she was blessed with a child before she was afflicted with her illness. I thank my lukcy stars I had the life i had.
I do not for one minute condone Abuse to children or anyone for that matter and animals. I would praise an animal who bit back and then ran off. and hoped and prayed that that animal found love and kindness, so they could see not all people have evil within. And if i knew this was happening to an animal I would not stand aside and allow to happen, I would do everyt hing in my power to help. as I would for a human being.
I personally have been through a childhood I would not wish upon my worst enemy. I have contemplated Suicide many times when going through my healing process. At the time thinking it was th only way to get rid of the thoughts I was having , all the confusion that went with it all. Stop me from feeling the Pain and Anger that was hidden for so many years.
But for me I have seen as My initiation to this world. I have seen it as a stepping stone to where i have got to.. I am now helping others heal., Find their true inner voice, that one that is ok to listen to. Not that somedays i wished i got to this stage without all of what i have been through. But the age old question comes up, would i be who i am without it?
When thinking about suicide way back then, I wasnt thinking of other people, and what they would feel if i left them behind, The way I was, I was only thinking of taking away the pain, that was so intense. The thing that stopped me, was purely for my own self. I still had dreams, I still had hope., As much as at the time couldnt see the light at the end of the tunnel, I lived in hope one day it would show itself.
When i hear of people who have commited suicide because of backgrounds i can relate to, and even those i can only imagine. I feel sad that the person really didnt hang onto that maybe someday Hope. I dont feel for their family left behind, I feel for the poor tormented soul, that felt they needed to end it all before they grew old.
With my Gran who took her own life before the Cancer did. I felt for her. I felt her pain, I knew why she didnt want to stay behind, It wasnt about us, who she left behind as much as she loved us and knew we would miss her dearly, This is not about us, It is about the person who feels the need to end their lives for whatever reason. It is sad that they have to. For my Gran it was a bit differnent as she was already old , and had lived her life. She was tired and had enough. She was ready. But who are we to say some of these younger people who take their life, dont feel that way too. We dont know really the circumstance behind every single suicide. I hope they have now found peace. I doubt it, But i hope they have.
I can only imagine and prefer not to really , when you see parents greiving for their teenage child who has just commited suicide. HOw tragic. I know a family here in my home town, Lost two daughters in a car accident. 15 and 17 .. their 13 year old sister couldnt take the grief and took her own life a few months later. The Parents are left standing on their own with no child at all , all three children gone. I cant even imagine the grief. And how so very sad for the little 13 year old, to feel the pain so badly and not knowing how to deal with , felt she had to end her own life to stop the pain and memories. Its aweful. I dont condone it. Nobody ever gets over a death of a loved one, they just get through it( eventually). as the years pass, at times it seems easier. and others days it seems like only yesterday.
I Dont think suicide in the young healthy person is ok!! because there is always a way to heal. as much as the bottom of the pit seems endless and like sticky mud and its hard to get up. It is possible, it can happen, YOu will find testaments all over the world where people have gone through horrific times in their lives, some things we would never even think of. But the autrosity what ever it is, someone has been through it, and survived.
I survived, Many many years later I am now helping others find their own. I get what you mean, but no matter what background we come from, we can always rise above it all and become a better person and learn from it. Its sad some cant seem to rise, but a lot of us do!.
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Post by sundogs34rcher on Feb 22, 2011 18:05:50 GMT -5
If you're asking for advice, then the answer is no it's not ok for all the reasons stated above. If you're asking for permission then the answer is also NO. Things never stay the same no matter how it may seem, somedays you feel ready, fulfilled others its more like 'what's the point?' I have a way of dealing with shit and its sort of like, If you don't like something you have 3 choices, .. learn to live with it .. change it .. or leave it (that means leave the situ or whatever is wrong, not leave the whole existing as a person in the human race thing.)
If you feel that life here has nothing more to offer, then you have to go look for something challenging even if its living in a cave on top of a mountain, ...that's actually quite good you can go mad and realise its not madness its just a mental freedom away from media and society and authorities who pump poison into our heads!! Do something really fucking different OK!
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Post by ~¤LilacSky¤~ on Mar 1, 2011 2:34:59 GMT -5
omg.......nice responses all of you but look at it this way your a good person who always ladns on the downside of things also, bein beatin up by boyfriends to nerr deat/...i can see both points equally however you can not change one fact........the fact of being yourself and to me i feel very tired and i got baaten up bruises all over me..........I knew that i had to try to change my life, because if i didnt they would for me......fuck that......i know im a better person..however if youve been beaten down on life over and over what do ya got left?yurself......... its about making changes like sundogs mentioned,i realy dont want to tell you guys what ive been trough just know that Im okay now......and we can all carrey on...........building strength is key.......but i already had it from my mom..........
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Post by ~~section8... on Mar 3, 2011 17:06:05 GMT -5
I love dancing bear's response. Hard times are a part of life. They really do make us who we are.
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Post by ~~section8... on Mar 9, 2011 17:57:19 GMT -5
Funny you started this topic because my friend just attempted and is in the hospital. To all the people that say it's ok for a normally physically healthy person to do it. Here's a big F you. There's so much strong potential in everyone.
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Post by existenceisadream on Mar 29, 2011 8:52:33 GMT -5
Wow! This is an intense topic. I don't know what to say. So much of what a lot of people have said so far resonates with me so much. Dancing Bear made a great post above.
It's really hard to say if there's a right or wrong. This goes towards everything. Not just suicide. I want to get into how emotions control us and how without them it would be a whole different story (and it would) but it's too much for right now.
What I do want to say is directly related to this though and it's that.... I used to be suicidal when I was younger. Thought about it a lot. Nearly killed myself about 8 years ago from an alcohol drug overdose. Not sure how I lived through it. For the last year or more I've gotten to the point of I just don't know what all this is for thinking. I'm just over it all. I don't like this illusion of life. I've thought about killing myself because I just don't like what is going on here. I'm not talking about my life in general but all of it. It's just stupid and doesn't seem like right even though I don't really believe in in that. It's hard to explain quickly or like in a nutshell. It's all so vast. But for starters as far as us humans go.... I feel there's a bunch of BS going on... I feel that the whole system is wack! I feel there's people (lots of them) in charge that force things into being that fuck us all. This has to do mainly with the food and drug industry. I feel a system is in place that aims to make us sick so that we have to spend massive amounts of money on drugs to make us "better". I know that this sounds like a conspiracy theory but this is what's going on. Scientists know, and it's becoming common knowledge now that what we eat is not right. All the processed foods, genetically engineered foods and so forth are killing us. There's so much money in the processing of these types of food and the drugs that we "need" to heal ourselves from consuming these "unnatural" foods that it's not going to stop. It's all so fucked it's ridiculous!
And beyond all that I'm just not happy with this system of what's perceived as living a happy life. Working pretty much everyday so that you can have this nice comfortable house or apartment and watch your TV (or netflix) and sleep in you comfortable bed so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again! It's driving me fucking insane! I'm done with it all!
But here's the thing. I've thought about suicide recently. Like in the last months. Cause I'm sick of all this shit. But when I think about killing myself, I feel that would be pointless to. As much experience as I have in OOB and the such I don't "really" know if there's anything beyond "this" as far as keeping this "consciousness" that I have goes. If I kill myself and that's it, it's over... Then fuck it, I might as well continue on here and live it up while I'll still can. Might as well try to change my life direction and see if I can't live a happier and "freer" life.
I'm actually beginning this journey soon. After driving a taxi for 3 years living the "comfortable" life, I'm leaving it all behind and hitting the road. Going to hitch across the country and get away from this illusion of what's supposed to be a happy life.
I know I sort of rambled here but damn it's hard not to. This topic is vast and one could go on forever about it! But if You're feeling like you're stuck and there's nothing left and you want to end it all... Instead of killing yourself you might as well break away from what and how you think life is supposed to be like and explore other realms. You've got nothing to lose! But if you kill yourself, You're losing everything.... Maybe...
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Post by mandala on Apr 1, 2011 10:57:26 GMT -5
Lilac, I'm glad things are improving for you. I was concerned that something was going on with the tone of the OP. Yeah, we've all been there and I'm going through some anxieties myself concerning money, my job (which will be ending in June) and a surgery I need. I'm going to see what I can do to have the surgery regardless of my job status. I need a hip replacement and it will help my chances of getting employment, and if I don't have it, I may remain semi-unemployed. For a year, the only thing I could find for work was substitute teaching. I was lucky to get a couple of days in a week. These are tough economic times we're living in and it's just getting worse. The only thing to do is what we can and fight back against the system!
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Post by crazycat on Apr 9, 2011 12:22:21 GMT -5
I have been suicidal several times in my lifetime, the last time was in 2005. Coming here and doing that Art of Dreaming project with you all was a big help in getting me pass the pain I was experincing. I thank you all for being here, and am grateful to you all for helping me through my pain, even though you did not know. I am especially am grateful to Nani. Ronni, read the below website and get the help you need. Suicide, is never the answer, except for in cases like Dancingbear's grandmother. Although, she may have been suppose to go through that for reason of karma. If that is the case then she may have to come back and do it all over again. My mom went through a horrible time before she died, a slow death that took about 10 years to complete. I am glad she was able to tough it out and I hope she is in peace on the other side right now. My dream meeting with her in the astral showed she was very happy. Anyways, Ronni, read the following web page and go get the help you need. When our pain get too much to bear, there is nothing wrong with reaching out for help from others. I think you beginning this thread was your way of reaching out for help and because of that I feel there is some part of you deep down that does not want to die. Meditate on what it is inside you that is attracting you to boy friends that beat you. Do something about it, get help. www.metanoia.org/suicide/Love you Ronni, Linda
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lightdreamer
Seeker
Dreams are experiences of the Soul
Posts: 30
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Post by lightdreamer on Apr 22, 2011 21:18:41 GMT -5
Just a word to anyone here reading this thread who may have felt suicidal at some point in their lives. I know living can be painful, it helps to know there are people around that do care. Thanks everyone for being here and for caring for each other.
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Post by Lena on Apr 26, 2011 1:06:30 GMT -5
*Hugs* to Ronni and anyone going through a rough patch. If anyone would like a free distant Reiki healing, email me at lenapro11 at yahoo.com
I agree with Dancing Bear about the fact that we need more lightworkers. If one person or animal gets help from you, your life is worth living. I can't describe the joy that I experienced in my life and thinking back to time I was depressed, I just want to give my past self a huge hug and let her know some wonderful things are around the corner. I'm sad when people miss out on life, either by committing suicide or not being present in their life. Find something or someone to lift you up and hold on to it! That's the secret I think.
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lightdreamer
Seeker
Dreams are experiences of the Soul
Posts: 30
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Post by lightdreamer on Apr 26, 2011 9:20:33 GMT -5
* Find something or someone to lift you up and hold on to it! That's the secret I think.
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