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Post by osiris on Jul 24, 2006 19:58:49 GMT -5
Awesome, The book i picked up is a harper perennial. I plan to just by the set from them so they all look nice and pretty together on the shelf...lol. There is a forum a course and a good link here for anyone that want to dive in like i did. I must admit if you get creeped out about things easy castaneda may be a bit rough going but i look at it as all an adventure...And im hooked line and sinker, mesmorized really is the better word by what ive read. I even realized that i have spoken with an emmisary for quite some time now. But guess ill wait until more of you read it for now. We can just use this thread than or you want a new one for it? Im going to pick up a couple more of his books for my "weekend" wed and thur for me. Supposed to rain so ill just make a the entire time one extended study of castaneda. toltecnagual.com/If only one of you sees his point of view i feel its well worth it. Love and peace Todd. Ok im excited like a little kid in a candy store so all you hurry up and get it...lol  Umm Lilac are we going to see you here with us? You know its more fun in a group...lol |
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Post by Dancing Bear on Jul 24, 2006 20:18:12 GMT -5
Cool Osiris I have read up to depth..
I will keep reading I would see this nagual self as the Soul..
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Post by osiris on Jul 24, 2006 20:42:50 GMT -5
hmm up to depth? Im missing something sorry.
From what i get the Nagual is a rare soul a leader. with a second energy center.
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Post by crazycat on Jul 24, 2006 23:12:52 GMT -5
Yes, I would like to read it agian. I was wanting to go back over it again after we got done last year. I didn't understand a lot of his terminology, but after reading all this gnostic stuff this year I feel I can understand it better. Also, when I joined in the reading of it last year I had just gone through a very rough six months and was very messed up emotionally (wasted lots of energy too and did not have any OBEs the last 4 months of that time). It's a wonder I got anything at all from the reading, but actually was what took my mind off the other and helped me over the depression. I do have more energy to put into it now. ;D I'm going on vacation for a week in just a few days. I will have to take the book with me and try to get some reading done it. I won't have a computer all week so surely I can read a little at night before going to sleep.  It's a wonder I have any energy left at my age to be doing this OBE stuff, but I have always been a pretty laid back person and never cared what anyone thought about me. I just figure if they don't like how I am then that is their problem. I wonder if that is a characteristic of most of us OBE'r. I guess if a person spent all their energy getting all work up and out sorts over every little thing they would not have the energy to have dream recall or explore the spiritual realm. Hehe! My husband is high strung like that and he never remembers dreaming, ever. We need to take a poll on that. Hehe! Another thing I have notice about us is that we all do love the outdoors and nature. So yeah, count me in. Are we going to do it the way we did before and read a chapter a week and then discuss it or some other way? |
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Post by crazycat on Jul 24, 2006 23:34:32 GMT -5
Existenceisadream, Hehe! I do know what the word stalking meant, I just didn't understand what he was stalking. Emmisary, just exactly what does he mean by these emmisaries? Are they some kind of spirit guide or little gnomes or fairies that are a part of the plants that he was partaking of. That thing that he did with the lizard was really far out. This site that Sxy found while we were reading has some mp3 files you can download and listen too. It is an overview of DJ teachings from all the books. www.prismagems.com/castaneda/Oh and about the second energy centers of a nagual, is it the same as the gnostics who advance far enough to create a solar body? |
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Post by crazycat on Jul 24, 2006 23:47:02 GMT -5
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Post by Dancing Bear on Jul 25, 2006 18:43:34 GMT -5
hmm up to depth? Im missing something sorry. From what i get the Nagual is a rare soul a leader. with a second energy center. Scroll to the bottom of this page and you will find topics, Nagual Living, Free will, depth, Laws. etc... It is is full of information! |
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Post by crazycat on Jul 25, 2006 21:11:09 GMT -5
Interesting looking site Dancing Bear. If nagual is the soul self what would be the tonal? Is there a site that gives diffinitions for these words that DJ used? That was why it was kind of hard to understand CC's books because I didn't know what all those Indian shaman words mean. I don't understand why nagual would be the soul self. Was DJ not a real person, but CC's spirit guide self? When I was reading the book I thought nagual was just another word for shaman. I never did get a clear understanding what the Assemblage Point is either. Could someone explain?
I'll read on that site when I get back. Maybe it has some answers.
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Post by osiris on Jul 25, 2006 22:00:04 GMT -5
Ahh where to start. The link you posted i have been exploring now for a bit. I just joined the forum there as well. Vey nice place but not the at home feel of here.
I am as well taking a vacation and will have very little time to read. How about we have a thread just for DJ and add questions about what we read as we go? Than we can incorporate other books later. I dont mind flipping back through the book at all and will even read it again.
The assemblage point is an energy center that is directly behind the shoulder blades and about arms length. It is in the exact same position on all humans and the goal is to move this point all about the energy body once you pass the first gate. As it moves it opens up new worlds to us. It fits very well with chakra in my opinion and goes along with my thoughts on the chakra actually being the mode of travel to differant planes. In or dreams it is extremely easy to move around and thats why we get the huge variation in dreamscapes. A sorcerers goal is to move this about to explore differant worlds o planes and the "old" sorcerers became so infatuated with this they moved it and learned all the laws of the differant planes to a point they new them as well as our world. I have read this so much with crowley and other mystics that the laws of each plane are differant and that it is actually bad that we have "created" so many unnatural laws here.
The Tonal is yourself the here and now. I think you will be much more in tune to this reading now cc.
Ahh depth ok. I was thinking you were reading the book already sorry.
as for the Nagual i choose not to say more yet because i just dont know enough. what i posted was just my interpretation so far.
The Emmisary i only know resides with the or is a inorganic. He is there to teach and speak to you like when you have the voice that teaches you that is an emmisary.
At one point i take it to be that the inorganics are actually evil. They offer a sorcerer whatever they want to stay with them in there world (which is a physical world like here) it looks the same to every sorcerer in there dreams. sex, knowledge, wealth they seem to be able to offer up anything. But in return they basically have you. Just as if you were to go to hell he has your soul. The thing is that there is no negative side like hell. Its all whatever you want when you want. I am not 100 positive on all my info YET there truly is a depth to these books that you have to almost meditate on to understand completly. And as far as what i believe well only experiance can tell. I am however very serious about following the gates at least for a while.
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Post by crazycat on Jul 26, 2006 0:12:34 GMT -5
Thanks Osiris for clearing some of that up for me. I was thinking the same thing about the chakras and I was wondering if the Assemblage Point had to do with the chakras. I have consciously left my body from my solar plexas and from my heart chakra. I would like to try and leave from the others to see if there is any differences in the experience. It amost felt like I was going to leave from the second chakra one day, but I didn't make it. I think most people leave through the crown and 6th chakras.
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Post by existenceisadream on Jul 26, 2006 0:49:21 GMT -5
To elaborate a little more on the Assemblage Points...
As osiris said humans have their AP's locked to one spot and this is how we see the everyday world the way we see it. When dreaming your AP will shift sometimes to drastic positions and this is how you can go to many different worlds while dreaming. The problem is most people once their AP shifts back when they wake can't remember where they were. When you wake and keep yourself in a meditative state instead of just waking up and starting your day you actually stop the AP from going to its habitual spot and makes it much easier to remember alot of you dreams. A sorcerers goal is to learn to control the movement of their AP's. Not only to learn to control it but to shift it to any spot they want and remember how to get back to that same spot. Good sorcerers can have hundreds of remembered spots they can move their AP's. Once you can do this from an awake state this world will disappear and you'll enter into other realities that can only be seen through shifting the AP.
I view the AP as different levels of consciousness as well. Many people will live their whole lives with their AP locked in one spot and having it only move slightly in their dreams in which they never remember. Kind of sad really. All they see is just one aspect of reality.
I feel the tonal is what osiris said but to add to it... It's what keeps you locked in this world. The things that drains your energy from you. I think of the tonal as the matrix. It does everything it can to keep people brainwashed zombies.
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Post by Dancing Bear on Jul 26, 2006 4:53:40 GMT -5
Wow!! That is pretty deep.. So when you get flashes all day of your dreams from the night before it is your AP slipping back to where it was when in dream state. AM i right in understanding you?
Or is it just your memory? I know i have walked around occassionally .. still in my dream, and very reluctant to get out, as it was nice dream, is this how to manipulate it, and the more you do it the better you get..
It would be a bit freaky to make the realty that we know today disappear, and then live in your own different realities After a while how would you know which is real and which is a shift in consciouness. Wouldnt that make us a basket case and pretty much like autistic in a way?
Just thinking aloud here!
I could have misunderstood you.
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Post by existenceisadream on Jul 26, 2006 6:44:04 GMT -5
sort of kinda but no. lol. The way I see it if it's our AP slipping back into the exact position from the dream then this reality would disappear before you and you'd be indeed back in that dream. So no the AP isn't exactly slipping back into where it was at while in the specific dream.
Well an impeccable warrior can shift to hundreds of these realities without being stuck in any one. In a way the physical that you've come to known as this existence you're stuck in anyways (while awake) so isn't this already crazy to be stuck in one aspect of reality? The goal isn't to get stuck in any one reality but to be able to endeavor through out many.
I know that I have this quote already on a thread here on this forum but it is perfect for this thread at this moment so I will add it here as well. It should help you understand better DB.
Hope it helps...
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Post by existenceisadream on Jul 26, 2006 6:46:38 GMT -5
From Carlos Castaneda's "The Fire From Within"
"What happens to the persons whose assemblage points lose rigidity?" I asked.
"If they're not warriors, they think they're losing their minds," he said smiling. "just as you thought you were going crazy at one time." "If they're warriors, they know they've gone crazy, but they patiently wait. You see, to be healthy and sane means that the assemblage point is immovable. When it shifts, it literally means that one is deranged."
He said that two options are opened to warriors whose assemblage points have shifted. One is to acknowledge being ill and to behave in deranged ways, reacting emotionally to the strange worlds that their shifts force them to witness; the other is to remain impassive, untouched, knowing that the assemblage point always returns to it's original position.
"What if the assemblage point doesn't return to it's original position?" I asked.
"Then those people are lost," he said. They are either incurably crazy, because their assemblage points could never assemble the world as we know it, or they are peerless seers who have begun their movement toward the unknown."
"What determines whether it is one or the other?"
"Energy! Impeccability! Impeccable warriors don't lose their marbles. They remain untouched. I've said to you many times that impeccable warriors may see horrifying worlds and yet the next moment they are telling a joke, laughing with their friends or with strangers."
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Post by existenceisadream on Jul 26, 2006 6:50:36 GMT -5
So you see the goal in sorcery is to be able to shift the AP "with control" to enter into these limitless realities but be able to be right back in the one we know now with ease. If you cannot reassemble this world as it is now while doing this then you may lose yourself forever...    But may not really be that bad of a thing... And for the next qoute... |
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Post by existenceisadream on Jul 26, 2006 6:57:06 GMT -5
Carlos Castaneda's "The Fire From Within" continued...
I said to him then what I had told him many times before, that what made me think I was ill was a series of disruptive sensorial experiences that I had had as aftereffects of ingesting hallucinogenic plants. I went through states of total space and time discordance, very annoying lapses of mental concentration, actual visions or hallucinations of places and people I would be staring at as if they really existed. I could not help thinking that I was losing my mind.
"By all ordinary measures,you were indeed losing your mind," he said, "but in the seers' view, if you had lost it, you wouldn't have lost much. The mind, for a seer, is nothing but the self-reflection of the inventory of man. If you lose that self-reflection, but don't lose your underpinnings, you actually live an infinitely stronger life than if you had kept it."
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Post by Dancing Bear on Jul 26, 2006 21:57:57 GMT -5
From Carlos Castaneda's "The Fire From Within" "What happens to the persons whose assemblage points lose rigidity?" I asked. "If they're not warriors, they think they're losing their minds," he said smiling. "just as you thought you were going crazy at one time." "If they're warriors, they know they've gone crazy, but they patiently wait. You see, to be healthy and sane means that the assemblage point is immovable. When it shifts, it literally means that one is deranged." He said that two options are opened to warriors whose assemblage points have shifted. One is to acknowledge being ill and to behave in deranged ways, reacting emotionally to the strange worlds that their shifts force them to witness; the other is to remain impassive, untouched, knowing that the assemblage point always returns to it's original position. "What if the assemblage point doesn't return to it's original position?" I asked. "Then those people are lost," he said. They are either incurably crazy, because their assemblage points could never assemble the world as we know it, or they are peerless seers who have begun their movement toward the unknown." "What determines whether it is one or the other?" "Energy! Impeccability! Impeccable warriors don't lose their marbles. They remain untouched. I've said to you many times that impeccable warriors may see horrifying worlds and yet the next moment they are telling a joke, laughing with their friends or with strangers." This is sort of what i trying to say.. re the sanity and insanity part. So it is an Impeccable Warrior that realises what is going on and takes control of these shifts. I am going to have to read this book definately I am waiting on it. Thankyou for the time to explain  Good explanation! Thankyou! I feel like I am in my own reality already LOL!! And nobody knows what planet I have emerged from But seriously Thanks for that DB xxxx |
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Post by existenceisadream on Jul 27, 2006 1:44:30 GMT -5
No problem DB I understand what you're saying about the insanity part of it. I myself have been to the edge and beyond as far as sanity levels go but no matter what have been able to reasemble the world as it is. I must say there's been times where I thought I had completely lost it (because if fact I did, basically lost all that I had been brainwashed through out my life to believe is real and is a set reality) but as don juan put, I have been able to keep my underpinnings. Hey check this thread: lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=chat&thread=1127032582&page=1 |
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Post by Dancing Bear on Jul 27, 2006 4:30:59 GMT -5
Well That thread should be in the best OW Threads... excellent reading Exsistance.. I totally agree. I am also on the verge of talking to myself all the time in fact I do in my mind, and answer.. Being an empath and psychic to certain degrees ... I have questioned my own sanity many times. and honestly sometimes thought i need to be commited... But I discovered over the years, The times i go through this is when I go through a shift in consciouness and advance further with my abilities... So I now understand where it is all coming from.. Yes i think all kids are insane and drive me insane too ! LOL Thanks for that link Exsistance It helped understand wher the book is coming from also. Hope you dont mind i am going to recommend the link for the OW best of thread. DB xxxxx |
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Post by osiris on Jul 27, 2006 12:16:42 GMT -5
The only time you need commited is when you loose control and the world knows....there is a fine line yes but as in anything you are good at there always is. Anyone not wise enough to know when to say ive had enough suffers unfortunatly. Many thoughts of mental ability and instability since i visited with the emmisary. But if you lock up anyone that has voices there goes this web site...lol
I admit Castaneda does change me but as long as you know when you wake up in the morning that the voices dont control you...
"reality is just another fucked up dream"....Disturbed
When you make the mind a top priority of change from the "ordinary" of course there will be doubt.
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