Ch. 3 Through the Dreamgates

[Lena]

October 26 - November 2, 2010

On to the next chapter, everyone!

OK, due to the feedback, I almost changed from posting a thread every week to posting sections instead. I decided to keep this structure for now, since a couple of you said you liked it.

Reading ahead: OK, so Derek mentioned he wanted to read ahead, when he came to the end of the chapter. I think it's fine to do that. Some ideas would be jot your thoughts down, if you are reading ahead, and then come back and post them in the appropriate chapter thread. Or when you are posting for a certain chapter, overview it really quick, but you don't have to strictly stay on topic either, just approximately.

I'm honestly still very excited about this study. Funny thing is Robert Moss has his own study going online. I didn't realize that. It started October 4th. Anyway, it's $20+ or something similar, which to me seems like a very reasonable fee for an online course, with access to author's feedback. Linda posted those links somewhere in case anyone is interested in joining next time.

All right, go on

[Lena]

In answer to your question, Derek, I do have plenty going on right now, that I have hard time focusing on dream life, but that's good because in the past I would tend to withdraw from my other activities. I think learning to balance between spiritual life and outer life is what's it's all about.

[existenceisadream]

I too think that's what it's all about. Balance. I think that's been what I've always striven for as well.

[nani]

i must say that im really impressed by the book! i didtn expect that, even before had no idea that someone like Moss did exist at all, so im truly glad to have known now, better said im on the way to know and understand more and more. Seems like my view on dreams is quite changing as well through his explanations. Me too im reading a bit forth and back all the time, cause so the informations get more clear inside. I think that tonight i the first time felt a peticular effect of the reading in that i dreamed to be in a dream of a dream, unfortunately dont remember the content but though feel something growing or effecting. Lets see further, for sure for me its an extension of my perception and also "believe" as softly a kind new imagination is born, cant grap it yet, but think its like: the more we can imagine to be possible, the more WILL be possible. Best wishes All.

[nani]

so, hey all, i`ve put my dream into my dreamjournal, though how is it, shall we put all our dreams here also into this thread?
or more only the experiences we definitely do assign to the book work only?
as i had read a lot of the posts here yesterday i of course feel connected to the book, although right yesterday i did not read in it, but anyways im further in pages - so pouh lol, hard to differenciate all this but lets take it easy right

best dreams and wishes

[Lena]

So I have to admit, that I start reading and that put it down because there is so much to it. Here are some concepts I love:

1. Going back inside the dream. I already posted asking a question about this somewhere. This is really fascinating stuff, especially the way he explains how it helps one clarify what the meaning of the dream is about. I have read a lot of psychology type advice about role playing. Like asking your fear what it wants to tell you. This could take it to a whole different level. I think I mentioned it somewhere before, but most of my dreams are not literal...I feel that if I had a literal dream, I may be a little scared because they just do not happen for me. I have ones, where I look ahead, so to speak, but none of them are scenes from awake life.

2. There is a message in your dream, that you need to know for your daily life. OK, now I do like this concept, but I have to mention that I do believe dreams have their own validity. For example, a healing dream might have a message, but what if you forget it? Does it mean it's not healing anymore? I believe that it still had the desired effect. Of course, as with anything, the more conscious we become, the more advanced we become. However, I do believe all of us are dream masters already.

Quick dream: We are on a island, lost somewhere, kind of like the show Lost. Ha! We CAN though keep contact with outside world on some radio. The woman tells us we are ranked very high, like 48th place (I don't know for what). One girl in our group wants to give up on something we are putting effort into, but collectively, we decide that we are better off to keep going. Funny, it's 9pm right now and I didn't write this dream down, when I woke up, but as I was typing, it kind of came back. I'm posting this here because I thought it had to do with the forum.

Does anyone else feel like we are getting together? Like when I think of some of you, I feel more familiarity now, than a couple of weeks earlier, like you are around or something.

[Lena]

Nani, I'm so glad you are enjoying the book!

Yes, I love this quote, that some wise person said

the more we can imagine to be possible, the more WILL be possible

[nani]

Lena wrote:
"2. There is a message in your dream, that you need to know for your daily life. OK, now I do like this concept, but I have to mention that I do believe dreams have their own validity."

i absolutely agree to this point Lena. And for me its like that i dont feel like a have to adept or agree to all what is said, for me its more that i gather all informations, also the new views on all, and then let it settle within me and see with the time what resonates. There are sooo many different views on all that dream-theme and i think one of them is the only true truth but all carry a piece of truth at least and also i think that the one or other "truth" so to say is more valid or fitting, dpeneding on the period and point of life where im at and also waht all i`ve been through already. We all like to experience new things from time to time, to broaden and widen ourselves and i believe our dreambodies and souls do lead us to such new adventures, cause they, the gods within us, foremost of all enjoy the diversitiy of all

love freedom adventures

[nani]

great dream! and hmmm, maybe we are somehow on the 4th of 8 steps of whatever something
and funny cause you say that you dont have dreams of waking life but your dream reflects a lot of what was/is going on and im convinced that all what happens here and with us is an important part of the group-energy-work, all is exactly right as it is and we can never know what will be the outcome, the result, but for sure it is something connected with growing and widening and me too i already feel the deepening and a feeling of getting closer

[nani]

so from tomorrow on we`re going to chap 4, right !?!

so best dreamin*

[crazycat]

Does anyone else feel like we are getting together? Like when I think of some of you, I feel more familiarity now, than a couple of weeks earlier, like you are around or something.

My remembering dreaming has increased a lot this week. Now I need for the details of the dreams to be remembered more. Most of them have been doing different things with several people involved, maybe it is with you all.

For some reason my younger brother has been in a lot of them. Maybe it is because I have been concerned about him lately. A few months ago his doctor recommended another heart operation and he refused to have it done. So he is just on medicenes and diet to heal his heart. Last report was a good one though, so not for sure what that is about. I will ask that question of my dreams tonight and maybe it will be revealed.

I have not had much luck with re-entering a dream on purpose, but will kept trying.

[Lena]

Nov 3, 2010 0:11:59 GMT -5 crazycat said:

My remembering dreaming has increased a lot this week. Now I need for the details of the dreams to be remembered more. Most of them have been doing different things with several people involved, maybe it is with you all.

Me too Linda! I have so many more companions now in my dreams. It's really quite enjoyable to have all that company

[crazycat]

Hehe! as long as it is not someone shooting at you! This berserk woman was mad at me for some reason and when I went over to pick up this baby I was taking care and to leave, she shot at me, missed me and shot the baby in the her arm. Then later in the dream she came out of house and was shooting at everyone. We were all doing some ducking behind things.

[existenceisadream]

Bringing the sleep paralysis issue back up... Moss discusses it here in chapter 3 in the 'journeying beyond the body' section. He answered the question I had of whether or not the twilight zone was actually sleep paralysis or not. For the most part he says it's not... or that in his practice he doesn't use sleep paralysis as his launching pad for his active dreaming or OBE's ect. To me what he's describing is more like what other books I've read explain as the "WILD" (wake induced lucid dream) techique. Where basically your goal is to keep consciousness from awake directly into your dream. But of course he's talking about having clear cut goals while attempting this. Learning this art of being able to keep conscious through the falling asleep process while entering into a dream with an intent (an exact goal planned out) seems so far the meat of this chapter and very important to achieve the many exercises he has you do.
I can "WILD" into a dream but usually not with an intent. I'll just find that I can 'see' the dream but realize that if I don't work carefully that I'll bring in too much awareness and wake up since I'm not fully asleep yet. So I'll keep 'watching' the dream and attempt to 'move' inside it when I feel the dream is becoming solid and I'm 'deep' enough not to wake up. But these occurrences aren't really common more like something that happens every week or two when things are 'flowing' good or something that takes months to occur when it's not.

The 'targeting' section- I've used this in the past with success but not being able to go directly into it with consciousness. I've actually visited several here on this forum using the targeting technique.

[existenceisadream]

Moss talks about using certain scenes or images as ways to travel while in this 'twilight state'. Like an elevator, door, tunnel, or "stepping through a hole in the wall". Not a 100% sure whether he's talking about this occurring once you've successfully weaved your way consciously inside a dream or while your still at the crossroads path to the dream.
This last week while reading about this, I kept finding myself being in hallways or tunnels walking down them while falling to sleep. Problem is that I kept bringing in too much awareness while attempting to transfer myself into the dream and would wake myself up. And I haven't been doing this with intent at all though. As in I'm not lying there trying to visualize a tunnel or hallway to walk down. I'm just trying to go to sleep and these scenes just occur. But I believe they're occurring because of reading this chapter about them. I'm excited about it. Planning/hoping to be able to walk down these tunnels or hallways with 'intent' into a dream.

[existenceisadream]

Dream reentry- Anybody having any success with this? Me not so good. One problem I seem to have with going directly into a dream from awake is that I'm not the best at visualizing. Making exactly what I want to appear in my minds eye or whatever. I've always been better at meditating into whatever decides to present itself and then moving into that.

[nani]

dream-reentry
amazingly this workes well quite often for me, but i dont understand it as i so often lack lucidity, so im wondering how can it be possible to have easy access to re-entry (and as well to any target-focus, which often works for me) but mostly lack lucidity. As i often said before, for me it is as if i would be another "I" in dreaming, for who all is so natural, so that the *dream-I* has no calling into question about anything at all, lol.
Several interesting points you highlight here and im asking myself still the same about how he means certain things in detail. I decided to await the end of the book, means to see if some points become clearer through the chapters by being explained from different perspectives or examples.
What i for sure preferable like is the example/exercise of the narrow tower one steps up and up towards a light, imagining this light inside the head in hight of the 3rd eye. This seems to activate me.

[existenceisadream]

Nov 8, 2010 3:55:09 GMT -5 nani said:

dream-reentry
amazingly this workes well quite often for me, but i dont understand it as i so often lack lucidity, so im wondering how can it be possible to have easy access to re-entry (and as well to any target-focus, which often works for me) but mostly lack lucidity. As i often said before, for me it is as if i would be another "I" in dreaming, for who all is so natural, so that the *dream-I* has no calling into question about anything at all, lol.
Several interesting points you highlight here and im asking myself still the same about how he means certain things in detail. I decided to await the end of the book, means to see if some points become clearer through the chapters by being explained from different perspectives or examples.
What i for sure preferable like is the example/exercise of the narrow tower one steps up and up towards a light, imagining this light inside the head in hight of the 3rd eye. This seems to activate me.

I think lucidity vs target dreaming and dream reentry can be two different things. What I mean is you don't need lucidity to for dream reentry and target dreaming. You need intent more for them. I feel it easier to to move into target dreaming with a detached awareness of what you're doing which doesn't always mean lucidity. Often the more detached you are the easier to move into the dream but harder to regain awareness once in the dream.
Days where I'm sleep deprived are easiest to at least wake and renter the same dream (not quite dream reentry to way Moss describes but still going right back into the dream I was just in) and I can do this many times during the day because I just want to keep sleeping but but often I won't gain lucidity during this dreaming.
For me once lucidity is activated during a morning of dreaming, even if I lose it or wake up and record dreams and go back to sleep, for some reason it's very easy to get lucid again. It's like once I activate that awareness, it's still hovering very close even if I lose it.

I like that walking up the stairs in the tower visioning as well. Haven't tried using it yet but will. I like it because it has a movement basis. You're not just visualizing and waiting to get deeper into the dream, but actually 'moving' within the visualizing which I feel is a powerful induction technique.

I think that will keep coming up where the further we read the more earlier parts of the book become more clear. Like the sleep paralysis question I had. This chapter answered it for me.

[Lena]

Sorry guys, I got distracted. Gotta get myself back on track. Technically, we are supposed to do Ch. 5 tomorrow, but since I've been slacking, do you guys mind if we keep on going with Ch. 4?

Love you all!

[existenceisadream]

lol, well I'm actually just beginning chapter 4 after a crazy last week... But maybe we should still put the threads up of each chapter each week even if we fall behind so that whoever is caught up or ahead can still post their thoughts and progress on it.