|
Post by Blake on Jul 2, 2005 12:38:23 GMT -5
I'd love to ba able to help ya with the footwork and stuff, but I only do static qi gong (no moving). Sounds interesting though, I might like to give what you're doing a try sometime. And yeah, I want to start looking at the martial aspects too.
What I do is very simple (partially because of an irritable back muscle), but I wonder if moving might keep the muscle looser than standing still. I might get that book. My back isn't really a problem with what I'm doing though. And I think that it works well enough (at least now that I've practiced a lot). For example I've recently gotten to where my chakras are all active enough so that I don't have to bother manually stimulating them. Except for my Solar Plexus, that one is still kinda lame but that's the only one. I find it interesting that that's the one that some people say isn't a chakra or isn't a true chakra, and it's the one that doesn't do so much on me. I know it functions for other people though, like you (Gav).
You might want to take note of the relationship of sexual energies to qi if you're not already. I just started some things that have turned out to be really powerful. You can read about my results in the "energy waves" post in the OBE world. I think I mention it in my third post on the topic. I got the info from "The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity" by Dan Ried (or Reid).
My back wouldn't bother me when getting into physical martial arts. It's weird. Qi gong is absolutely the ONLY thing that bothers it.
|
|
|
Post by nani on Jul 2, 2005 20:25:59 GMT -5
Hi Gav, Hi Blake
I will read all that tomorrow again attentively and reply, just now saw it, but too tired, cant concentrate well, so just some short quick comments.
Gav, thanks for your words about sensitivity, really feels true and echos.
Taiji: I`ve heard very often of people getting serious knee-problems, so I truly would be cautious about that, not saying that the book or anything is wrong. I dont know about this style exactly, but anyways I wouldnt rely on my own judgement in this matters, so I will ask my 2 teachers about that, they should know exactly or at least have a profound opinion. On monday at the latest I should know something more concretely about that special thing.
So see ya tomorrow or monday.
Its so wonderful to see you both here.. love_growth nani
|
|
|
Post by Blake on Jul 2, 2005 21:05:08 GMT -5
I need to read the part on centralization that you said sometime when I have more time too. Are you talking about enlightenment? You mean like, being without emotion is best? I guess that might be true but I don't know if that's what you're saying.
|
|
|
Post by nani on Jul 4, 2005 12:54:16 GMT -5
Hi Gav and Blake,
Gav, I found out some about your taiji-stances question, I hope a did understand the answer of Thomas, my broth, right (in german lol) and I hope I can pass it on in the right way.
Thomas said that he has been also with Wong Kiew Kit in China for around 6 weeks to learn. He says that he calls him “uncle” and that he is a very nice guy with lots of good intensions and well known all over the world of his great qualities as a great-master of Shaolin-gongfu and Qigong.
But to express it in a short way, Thomas also said: please do learn it (whatever of this kind) personally from someone! Come here to Thomas! Or take a translator-person with you to Wong and learn from him there! Or find out somebody near you in England, and even if you go just for a weekends-workshop to any educated teacher. Because he agrees on me and on your feeling of that if something of those exercises feels not right and un-natural, especially for the knees, then it truly IS not right! Especially this subtle corrections which are needed seem to be too hard to learn from a book, because every physical being is a bit different and needs to be corrected personally. That learning from someone doesn’t have to take long, not at all. Some days intensively will be enough and you would benefit of it tremendously, because then the whole mistakes which very easily arise would have no chance.
As long as you will keep on doing it on your own though, he just can tell a little help-trick to control yourself better. That’s called the “rabbit-trick” – and this finally counts for most of all the exercises of Taiji, Qigong and Gonfu. Its usually best applied on the “cats-stance”, which you didn’t name explicit in your post, but he considers this stance as the basic of Wongs work anyway. So to prove you are healthy and right standing in this position (the weight on the back leg and the front leg apparent) you just try to move up your toes of the back standing feet!!! If that is possible – you are right! To be able to do this you have to alter some other body-parts in a subtle way. I have learned a similar rule which does contain the same and controls the same purpose. Looking down to your back-leg knee, this knee should NOT appear over or further than the toes, so you still see the toes. The toes are not hidden under the knee from the look from above. (uuuhhh I hope my English does it in this specified case lol, if not please let me know). So the weight gets much more on the femoral. That means, you only can do it like that if your bum really is pulled backwards, then you also should have a much more balanced- and natural- (at least not “suicide” lol, that was so funny) feeling. Also Thomas added that the “Mabu-stance” would be very good to work on. And what would be most important for all this special positions, would be to really do an intensive warm-up before, like raise Qi in your hands through rubbing them and then rubbing with the hands over the knees intensively. And other warm ups like turning the knees in the air slowly, but well and several times.
Thomas also mentioned something named like the “practical-taiji-school” in London, which of he says that (at least) the teachers who are teaching actually there, are quite good and profound.
I will add a sentence more via e-mail about that..
Gav, like mostly, your entire post contains so much to talk about that I better will split the single themes a bit, I`ll do a separate post on the other contents okay.
Blake, I don’t know if you were referring to Gav`s or to my post with your last reply, maybe it’s the same anyhow in this case, cause at least I myself was speaking about enlightenment in a way, yes.
In reference to the post-content of Gav about centralization, emotion, the “just be –don’t do” which is called also “Wu Wei” in the Chinese terminology and about what I call "liberation of the mind", like the advaita-philosophy, we could do extra-replies in this thread, don’t know if I have the time to start that today or just soon. But this in fact was my main question, hence its very interesting and important for me spiritually, although now the martial-arts-theme was predominant and I felt it more important to reply to first. love_growth nani
|
|
|
Post by Gav on Jul 5, 2005 5:38:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the response guys,
Nani:
What Thomas says makes very good sense to me, I have always been taught that if it does not feel natural it is wrong, or at least incorrectly done. I also agree that learning from a book is much easier after some tuition in the basics.
I will consider my options for training; perhaps to train locally I will have to switch to some more popular forms of Kung Fu.
I will try the “rabbit-trick” later today when I train; it makes perfect sense how you described it! No more suicide stance! I will go through the actions of everything you described; my thanks go to both your brother and yourself.
Blake:
My use of my solar plexus began as I was taught that this is where I was to well absorbed energy, OBE exit through the solar plexus then just developed naturally for me. I wonder if people could have different energy configurations, you may have stumbled upon something.
I also would not rule out that psychological element, in that it may work for me simply because I believe it will, and that is how I had always done it, so perhaps it is a psychological element that is in control. – This may further have little or nothing to do with chakras. Perhaps I should try making energy exits through varying parts of my body, might have some interesting results. Perhaps so long as the energy is pulled to that point the exit can be forced from any part of the body.
I printed out your energy waves post, I will have a better read in my new house whilst waiting for electric to be turned on and the internet to be reconnected.
The part in my previous post about centralisation is in regard to gaining enlightenment, in so much as if you wished to gain enlightenment it would be more agreeable to be centralised first.
I have never gained prolonged enlightenment, Samadhi I would perhaps daringly claim to have glimpsed a couple of times.
As centralisation strengthens you will work your way to Samadhi, or enlightenment but this is not a good state for operating in your daily life and is something best experienced when away from society and civilisation, especially if you wish to prolong the experience. You would become non-human and human dealings placed upon you by others would only ground you and kill the experience.
Centralisation comes when we accept, not apathetically, but knowingly, not because we want to deceive ourselves but because we understand. Questions lay to rest, you exist without question and without attachment. Thinking is laid to rest, paradoxically this then yields the clearest thought you would ever experience, but more like a stream of knowledge, not your thoughts, but instead a cosmic truth.
Hard to explain but as soon as you have a glimpse you would understand more.
Emotions attach us to things, be those objects, places, people or memories. We can break done those attachments enforce by negating the emotions that hold them in place. Everything is paradoxical, the world, life, thoughts, the consciousness, to lay an instinct to rest we must understand the range of its possibility and understand how its contradicting natures combine to negate it to just one thing a void. Life, death, or joy and suffering, love and hate, are all degrees of the same thing, one is negative one is positive. So we can consider that everything can be broken down to simply negative and positive, which when perfectly balanced leave void, just one point of void.
People on a path of knowledge naturally progress through the stages of becoming centralised, although they will not necessarily ever achieve enlightenment or Samadhi. Most people have experiences of extreme sorrow or extreme joy within their paths, it is these experiences that help define the ground. It is so important to understand both extremes, this is a key to “not doing”.
For example an optimist in the eyes of many may be choosing to not do “pessimism” but the truth is that they are doing something; they are doing optimism, which means they are still open to the idea of pessimism, they are doing the opposite of that which they wish to lay to rest, they are doing, and they are unbalanced.
To “not do”, would be to completely lay both optimism and pessimism to rest and be non attached or entertaining to neither. This is “not doing”.
People will bounce about between the poles of any paradoxical instinct as they progress through their lives and the biggest progress arrives when they begin to externalise, or take responsibility for something much greater than just the self. This comes after an acceptance of responsibility to the self. Many, many emotions, anger, sorrow, depression are to a degree self centred, for example often when someone dies, it is not the darkness of that persons life leaving the world, but your own sorrow at missing that person, when something bad happens such as an accident it is not the pain and suffering of those involved but the inconvenience it causes to you.
Many people find an external blame for everything, “this did not work because so and so did this”, or “it was his fault not mine” or “I am so unlucky”, etc. Once you have taken responsibility for yourself that view changes to one of, “That’s my fault I should not have burdened someone else with the responsibility”, or “I should have seen that coming”, and not as a cause for being down on oneself and depressed but as a pure balanced acceptance of responsibility.
Once self responsibility is gained that begins to extend outwards, it has to as you must experience both extremes of responsibility! This is where we find compassion, and contempt. Often at this stage you can get dangerously depressed but this is not a self centred depression, but a depression for all the wrong in the world. The ill treatment of animals, war, famine. Something has happened; you have just accepted responsibility for everything. You have now experienced the other pole of responsibility, and now you must understand the innocence of all things you held in contempt, and become open to void.
That was a possibly badly written quick introduction to centralisation as it applies to enlightenment, it is in reality a very simple thing that is so hard to grasp it can be made to appear extremely complex, again we are riddled with paradox.
The single best tool for centralisation I have ever found is the Qabalah, that would be the practical Qabalah as in the Tree of life, rather than Judaism as a religion.
The single best book I could recommend on Qabalah would be the Aquarian Qabalah by Naomi Ozaniec.
Many people who practice tarot but do not think they know the Qabalah may be surprised at how much of it they have already learnt through the tarot, the study really could go hand in hand.
Kind Regards Gav
|
|
|
Post by nani on Jul 5, 2005 13:22:08 GMT -5
hi and thanks for that great post Gav, I do agree totally, but still have some questions about how to exactly deal with all that truth and cognition. Gav: I got a thoughtfully problem since a year, Gav maybe you can help me with this inner contradiction. This what you are saying also is the exact same statement the advaita-vedanta-philosophy is saying too. I was into this before I came to the OBE forums. I was at all those satsangs with those wonderful masters, like Gangaji etc. and it really felt right for me. Their "technique" just is called: "self-inquiry" in form of asking: "who I am?" or "where is this thought coming from?", or "whats the source of this emotion?". Whenever I think or feel something I would ask this and finally get into exactly that what you are describing, into a free space, into a being without valuation of good or bad, positive or negative, into a kind of void! I could apply this on many situations in daily life, so it was very helpful and freeing for me, especially for this already mentioned "burdensome compassion". I would have followed that way, but found you OBE-people, got so excited about it, but it doesnt get along with advaita, cause for advaita everything else than the final light/god is illusion, also OBEs are illusion in their eyes. And of course in comparison to the last-being-god finally for me anything else is illusion too, but still, I do consider the OBE work as a good step on my path, so I`ve left the advaita-practice more and more behind - but finally with the result that now I feel much more sensitive and suffering again. Sorry for taking soo much attention on me now, but this question: HOW to get this two things together again? is bothering me since quite a time. How can I be so engaged on one thing, like on the OBE-work, and at the same time become loose and released of bothering emotions and worrying thoughts. If we are talking now bout advaita or any other philosophy or technique which is leading directly to the void/higherself/god. How does this go together? So you are saying that studying the "Qabalah" could be very helpful to get that deep freeing insight which also transforms the feelings ?? love_growth nani
|
|
|
Post by Gav on Jul 6, 2005 3:41:58 GMT -5
Hi Nani,
I should give you a golden badge if I had one for asking the hardest question I have been asked this year! Or perhaps ever! I shall however exalt you for your deep thought.
Thankfully for me, this is one I have spent some time pondering because as you have, I have questioned my reasons for being dedicated to not only AP but, anything at all.
I will share with you the thoughts I had on this subject as I believe you may find them of value, or you may at least find some truth within them that is good for you.
"Remember, none of this really matters" I used to hear that occasionally as a voice in my head. Good advice? Well that depends on what we need.
I once had a Samadhi experience in which I knew the meaning of life, sounds like a tall tale I know, but I am completely on the level. I detailed this experience sometime ago on this forum and we discussed it.
The thing about that experience was that as soon as I came into contact with any means of passing this message on I forgot it!
What I did however retain from that experience were all the feelings I had about the meaning of life.
I know it was simple; one sentence summed it all up.
I know it was funny, hilarious even! I knew that I could have shouted this out on a battlefield and everyone would have stopped fighting and started laughing, and loving. Even the critically wounded, it was that funny, and the funny part was not the message, but how badly we had got it wrong!
I know that none of the wrongs would have mattered; everyone and everything would have been instantly forgiven by those that heard the message.
It would also have been the end of society as we know it, the end of economics, the end of money etc, etc.
Finally it was universally applicable, so long as the message was in the correct language there was not a single person from any walk of life that it did not apply to.
The important thing to gauge is that even once all the dogma’s and social and economic restrictions were removed something’s would have still existed, namely the world, our entire Mother Nature so to speak, and human nature. Why?
Because most of us (Humans) are quite content with being just that, humans. Most of the race is not ready or willing to escape from the Human syndrome. And whilst these conformists exist anything that is set right by divine intervention, messages of wisdom or the work of adepts will once again fall into decline as the victim of free will and human nature.
A message like that could reset the world, but it would decline again as soon as the message was forgotten. Simply because this is free will and people will not be content to sit around and do nothing, and open to each persons breadth of experience is the ability to taste both good and bad, it has to be this way, two main archetypes the positive and the negative have the whole human condition strung between them. The people with their free will simply choose when it suits them which archetype they wish to be drawn towards. The majority cannot see beyond that, and most certainly would choose not to.
That is the thing with “common free-will” nothing new ever happens, the archetypes are already in place, we just attach to a mix of them, and let society decide what we should do, based on our preferences. If society needs a new doctor, someone will train as doctor and get the job, if society is overcrowded we will fight wars etc etc.
We are all drawn by the same governing influences, only we have the ability to choose which we would rather pay attention to, our very actions and thoughts are all interconnected, in one way or another we all ebb and flow to make way for everyone to the requirements of the human machine.
However, as we have discussed previously the more attachments we shed the more we slip through the workings of the great human machine towards the void.
Consider that the world is no different than us, it is playing the same game only to slightly different rules, instead of thinking with synaptic nerve ways and neuro-modulation it thinks through ecosystems, chemical reactions and physics, in a way we are components of the world, a system infinitely more complex than us, the machine that runs existence.
The void would then be the centre point of all reality. The void contains nothing and conversely everything that ever has been, is being and will be. The void represents the infinite and the infinitesimal its is both static and endless potential. A void contains no restriction, no rules, no physics, anything can be created from within the void, for example an entire world could be generated by thought alone!
I have always thought of, and to some extent experienced the void like a valve, I believe that if we were ever to find transcendence or escape from this “reality” then it is through that valve that we would travel to the next plane of existence.
This is possibly impossible unless one was truly adept as just one thought whilst in the void would generate another world or possibility around us instantly. So to traverse the void one would have to be completely selfless and free of thought, know truth but do not question.
How do we lay those final questions about the world to rest? As with all the attachments we have laid to rest we must understand and accept the source of the confusion completely. So to understand and accept the world completely we must understand all of its facets, both polls, and all of its planes of existence.
This is where the mental world comes in. If to fully understand compassion we must know contempt, to fully understand the physical world we must understand the Astral!
Only once we can fully accept that which we don’t know without question! Or fully understand the answers to those questions that bother us, would we ever be able to traverse the void as a journey rather than a fleeting glimpse of Samadhi or a visit of enlightenment. To transcend we must lay everything to rest, completely and permanently, and to do this we must understand and accept the breadth of experience.
Your dreams and all your astral projection guide you towards the void, as to experience everything is to lay everything to rest, to lay everything to rest is to accept and to accept fully and without reservation or return is to transcend.
The Qabalah is an incredible tool of wisdom, a map of the world, a map of the psyche, and almost anything we wished to apply it to. To progress through the tree of knowledge you must follow its paths and each requires an amount of discovery, deep meditation and contemplation and leads all the way to “God Head”.
Using the tree of life as a meditative tool you can experience so much, and lay so much to rest. I truly would heartily recommend the book the “Aquarian Qabalah”, it is a rather contemporary take on the Qabalah but is very advanced. Not in terms of having to know Qabalah before starting but the book truly is a journey of the soul, to which you would have to be open, which I believe you are.
The book also covers Jungian psychology, and Buddhism within the context of learning the soul. I would also happily help you with any content in it if you requested although I do not believe for a moment that you would have a problem.
Good luck Nani.
|
|
|
Post by spinner on Jul 6, 2005 12:58:28 GMT -5
I just want to say that I enjoyed reading this post, especially the last page. There is some really good content in here. I especially like the conversation on not-doing. It might be nice to see some of these new questions/topics posted as a new topic for discussion; it almost seems hidden behind some of the other initial topics. Of course though, it all relates...it always, always relates. hee, hee. Good stuff!
|
|
|
Post by nani on Jul 6, 2005 13:32:50 GMT -5
thank you very much Gav, it does so g o o d to read it.
I`ll internalise that .. more .. by more often reading .. and by just let it settle down ..
oh and I remember very well your story of this sudden enlithenment and clearness, which so blessed came over you, or out of you. I called it "Satori" these times when we were speaking about.
After our dream-walking-workshop I will get this book of Qabalah too - cause I cant concentrate on too many things at once, and I believe this workshop will help me a lot too. It surely will help me to get closer to a decision bout my path.
I dont wonna sound theatrical (although I am a bit anyhow lol) but time will point it out, if my path keeps on going on the "experience-way" so to say, or change unto the other way which always is in the back of my mind. Namely, leaving here this western world and everything again, when once the beings who need me, like mother and cat, are not needing me anymore, leaving to India i.e. again and practice the "non-experience" way further on, just in dissolving my subjective personality consequential through specified meditations.
Some years ago I thought that my path would go on till the end in direction dissolving my personality in helping others, but I found out that I haven`t got the right personality for this, cause finally Im too martial deep inside - and this always would come up more and more as I speak and stand up for the tortured beings in this world, that did tear up me more and more.. still today.
So I knew and know that sooner or later I have to give up something, either close my eyes with a tremendous effort of ignorance, get away from that "fighting for rights activities", which feels like betray my beloved friends the animals, or give up my love&spirituality and become active against injustice in a real heavy way - but that cant be the solution neither, esp. as I know that finally all that is illusion - oh lord.
the monks are right - just laughing could be the only answer.
So but Im in the middle of that damn thing, very human lol, and so I just have to stand it here like everybody, with all inner contradictions, and Im best counseled here with all you guys, on that most intensive level of spirituality, which is sooo comforting. And maybe I`ll get that what Im longing for, what everybody is longing for, an individual answer, a deep experience - (which consolidates what I actually and in fact know since my 12th birthday, and also have experienced in some life-episodes) - through developing my obe-abilities, what seems to be my destiny-aim since the last year.
from Gav: this is where I am! This is what Im "working on" right now! Yes!
from Gav: and this is where Im going to.. be..
again Gav, thank you very much, from one hour ago when I started my reply up to now Im ending and sending it, there has already germinated something new (but known) within.
Im very grateful to have come to know you and all my new friends here. love_growth nani
|
|
|
Post by nani on Jul 6, 2005 13:38:17 GMT -5
oh spinner, just saw you. You are right I feel. First I proposed it to do further replies here in this thread, then I thought of better opening up a new one also for the others more easy to join in and because of the mixed up themes, like you say,, but before I could write my new idea Gav already had replied here.. and now I continued, but maybe he still can put it into an extra thread, if he feels like too. It just was a wrong proposal of mine, Im glad you say it. love_growth nani
|
|
|
Post by Gav on Jul 6, 2005 14:52:00 GMT -5
Nani, you are most welcome. Spinner, I am glad you enjoyed the thread. It is kind of hidden, you are right, but one may say that all those who seek the answers wil find it Kind Regards Gav
|
|
|
Post by ~¤LilacSky¤~ on Jul 6, 2005 16:42:27 GMT -5
This was a very interesting read from you guys, I too enjoyed reading your concepts.. Gav did you notice that Naomi Ozaniec joined our forum and posted his website.. you can find the post here.. lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=chat&action=display&thread=1120512911wow thats just ironic how he showed up on our forum after you talked about his book.. I must agree with some things here.. I would say that we find true enlightenment when we let go ..I have found this to be true for myself, so I remain as open as possible letting things come and go as they do..I read once that by just being and allowing life to flow through will bring you closer to your own truth of existance..and understanding of the universe.. another thing I found to be true for myself is that all are things of the physical which can be altered and manipulated and that things are just that..this includes love,hate,good , bad..words that define us..though we can not be difined..I let go of these "words" and embrace "me". I don't have all the answers but I have found my own truth..and that is nothing is definable in the physical, but mans creations will continue to power the world and define reality..the further we are from these illusions,the further we are from physcial needs cares wants..that is where we will find enlightenment..the power to understand both life and death. the power to see past all facades of man..this is where I wish to be. however I seek affinity because it is through affinity we find another hidden truth..about ourselves and about life,death, and the all..in affinity we are not alone..we are one with god(all)
|
|
|
Post by Gav on Jul 7, 2005 1:59:37 GMT -5
I have seen it now!
Looks like an advertising blurb to me though, quite dissapointing really I wonder if that was really her or some marketing agent?
Most certainly rather syncronistic though.
|
|
|
Post by ~¤LilacSky¤~ on Jul 7, 2005 7:13:01 GMT -5
yeah it does..lol I thought it was a bit ironic though.
|
|
|
Post by nani on Jul 7, 2005 10:01:10 GMT -5
last night - meditation, re-reading the last pages of CC, and sound-bowl cleaning of the flat - I had a kind of dream-answer to the last thoughts of this thread, thats why I just put it shortly here now.
Dream: A friend of mine (living mainly in India) died. I was so sad and crying. Other friends, werent sad, didnt cry. His gf was Very happy that he died! Because he had left her before.
Strange, but funny and insightful, I feel, according to my path-idea to once go again on a world-exclude-trip to India lol. I`ll sort it out soon, but on a feel-level I already know..
aaaahhhhaiaieeoeoeoeha ! its so fantastic and amazing how themes, discussed here, do work onward subconsciously. The subconscious really is grateful for any hint from outside and then itself is helping also as much as it can, in feel-pictures of course.
This boy was my bf long ago, but finally too young for me, I felt we had a different path, he felt he had to do things like travelling, what I already had done and left all behind me - so I separated, with one weeping eye ..
lgn
|
|
|
Post by spinner on Jul 7, 2005 11:41:01 GMT -5
nani, you are so thoughtful. You are a nice reminder that when we take the time and courage to look at things in detail, we invariably find the solution/insight/inspiration/whatever it we need!
|
|
|
Post by Gav on Jul 7, 2005 15:06:02 GMT -5
Hi Nani, Marvellous dream message! I am glad you have found an answer; you did of course have all the answers all along. Remember change is necessary, it must be explored as well as stillness, to make do with stillness is “to do”, it becomes an apathetic action, not a peace, or a balance, only if we are still with contentment can we intend to be still, that is where the balance between stillness and eternal movement lays, in intention. Go to where you need to be, and where you want to be, travel on the wings of intent and travel with power, know peace my friend – find yourself once more, find knowledge, and find the void – and leave a light on for me when you get there We would of course come and visit you in India when your journey takes you home. Kind Regards Gav
|
|
|
Post by nani on Jul 8, 2005 10:36:39 GMT -5
I AM, I feel
touched
encouraged
inspired, supported, released
You are such wonderful souls
|
|