Gav's Meditiation Article

[mactombs]

www.astralabyss.com/meditation.htm

I wanted to start a thread about this article, because I have some things I'd like to discuss about it.

Meditation is very important to me. It is the first link that brought me to OBEs from being a very skeptical materialist.

Firstly, I found it a superb article (though "if you are loosing to your thoughts" should be "if you are losing to your thoughts" "let loose (slip) the hounds of war" ... sorry, I get a bit crazy about that one).

Actually, that's kind of related to the first thing I would like to discuss about this meditation method. Gav says "Words are the language of the brain, intentions and symbols are the language of the soul."

I disagree, since what are letters by symbols? I'm also very language-oriented, since I'm a writer (and have been for nigh unto 14 years). The philosophical arguments about how reality is shaped by language is a good one too, and deep. I suppose you could argue that language filters reality through a layer of subjectivity, too, however.

Not surprisingly, a lot of the tools I use are language-related in those precious and rare instances I find myself somewhere mind-bending.

As far as personal experience goes, during my first OBE I obtained clarity by verbal assertions, and kept clarity by having a running commentary about what I was seeing. I talk to myself a lot. I also know how close I am to dreams and falling asleep by how random and nonsensical my thoughts become.

On the other hand, I agree that total silence of internal diologue is very useful, and that pure and focused intent is probably the most potent force I've encountered in my dreams. Internal diologue can becoming maddening at times, as well, like the ever-repeating song stuck in the mind.

But is silence of the mind from internal diologue essential for a deep trance, one deep enough for projection? Thus far my answer is no. This may be colored by the insane difficulty and frustration that I encounter trying to silence my internal diologue - which in turn results in a tense mind - maybe I don't want it to be true.

I hope to develop a meditation that uses verbalization as a strength, that takes it all the way to the depth of trance maintained from mastering Gav's technique. Any thoughts on how feasible this is?

This is the first point I'd like to bring up on this article, and for now, but there are more things I'd like to bring up after this (and after I've had more practice with this meditation).

[Gav]

Hi Mactombs,

Thanks for the feedback

“Gav says "Words are the language of the brain, intentions and symbols are the language of the soul."

I disagree, since what are letters by symbols? I'm also very language-oriented, since I'm a writer (and have been for nigh unto 14 years). The philosophical arguments about how reality is shaped by language is a good one too, and deep. I suppose you could argue that language filters reality through a layer of subjectivity, too, however.”<br>
The line that reads, "Words are the language of the brain, intentions and symbols are the language of the soul." Should better read "Words are the language of the brain, intentions and feelings are the language of the soul."

As you state very correctly a word is a symbol. A representation of a feeling or an intention.

Words are a very powerful medium, but they can be swapped around, in as much as we could express a feeling or intention with words in multiple ways, and in different dialects. But regardless of how we may or may not understand a tiding expressed in another dialect, the intention and the feeling were the same, only it has become obscured by the symbols.

I also have a love of words, especially poetry, and philosophy, as I guess these are words with feeling. A word on its own stands for very little I guess, but when someone with the intention to express their feelings weaves them together the effect can be stunning. I guess we re-interpret those symbols back into feelings, which is food for the soul. But also often we can misinterpret another’s feelings and intentions through the mutability of their chosen words, or their chosen dialect.

“But is silence of the mind from internal diologue essential for a deep trance, one deep enough for projection? Thus far my answer is no. This may be colored by the insane difficulty and frustration that I encounter trying to silence my internal diologue - which in turn results in a tense mind - maybe I don't want it to be true.”<br>
The mind does not need to be silent to enter a hypnogogic state deep enough for projection, often I let my mind run riot as I drop through to the hypnogogic state, I find that once in this state I am much better able to get rid of any mind mess. I practically sit down to go to sleep when I OBE, only I am pretty keen at catching myself on the point of losing consciousness.

More important than the silence in your mind, is the ability to make it silent, and keep it silent, as a demonstration and exercise in mind control. Nowhere near that level of internal quiet is required to OBE, but the concentration and power of mind you will gain by exercising and practicing that level of silence will benefit your OBE.

I guess the important thing to consider is the difference between meditative trance with the aim of working towards hypometabolic alertness and the hypnogogic state. If you where to become hypnogogic whilst practicing a silence of mind, and alleviation of thought and mental imagery you would have failed in your task.

Your description of your orientation towards language, and talking to yourself, sounds very much like me. I speak to myself constantly when I work, and often have to spend considerable time when meditating to silence myself. I think it could be said that I am capable of doing my own head in, if that makes sense?

“I hope to develop a meditation that uses verbalization as a strength, that takes it all the way to the depth of trance maintained from mastering Gav's technique. Any thoughts on how feasible this is?”<br>
Shortly a section will be added to that article on self hypnosis, and guided meditation which are as you state extremely reliant on dialog.

Thank you very much for you comments, and please continue to give feedback,

Good luck with the meditation :J

p.s. Im now going to ‘loose’ my self in a book. Joking :J

[Gav]

Just in case anyone is thinking that Mactombs is crazy as they cannot find the errors in the article, they have been corrected.

If anyone sees any other blatent errors please let me know.

Thanks Gav

[mactombs]

Gav wrote:

The mind does not need to be silent to enter a hypnogogic state deep enough for projection, often I let my mind run riot as I drop through to the hypnogogic state, I find that once in this state I am much better able to get rid of any mind mess. I practically sit down to go to sleep when I OBE, only I am pretty keen at catching myself on the point of losing consciousness.

Whew! That's a big relief for me. What you describe here is exactly what I have had the most success with so far. Trying to still my mind while relaxing/falling asleep doesn't work for me at all. I have also found it much easier to clear the mind once I am deeply relaxed.

I suppose catching yourself on the point of consciousness is pretty much just a thing that comes with practice?

Today I tried meditating. I got to that point where there are gaps in my awareness and quite often my mind has random dream-like images and sounds. I can still feel my body, though it feels different than while awake. I didn't fall asleep, except in those moments where memory just disappears for short bursts, but I didn't go deeper than that, either. Once I get to this point, I'm usually at a loss what to do next. It seems a dead-end.

Anyway, I tried the breathe in to the count of 4, hold 4, breathe out 4. I find that I have problems with this. Usually holding for 4 is uncomfortable. I think the main aim of this counting is to keep the breaths consistent, but I find the counting and breathing more of a strain right now than if I just let my lungs breathe me, so to speak.

I also tried making my vision go black when I had some pretty clear random images of a computer screen pop up. It was tempting to try to get the images even clearer, but I just tried for making the screen go black. Usually I have a hard time with this. Random static or more faint dream images pop right back up. Does this get better with practice?

I'll have more questions as I get further along.

[Gav]

Hi Mactombs,

“I suppose catching yourself on the point of consciousness is pretty much just a thing that comes with practice?”<br>
It is, I think it can be greatly enhanced by monitoring your thoughts whilst dropping under, which is very much what you have already described you are doing.

My thoughts generally cycle, I have small bouts of dreaming, they get gradually stronger and they take me away for short amounts of time, but because I am ‘willing’ that I stay hypnogogic, I finally reach a point, that I just become conscious again, the dreams subside I am hypnogogic.

On the way to that state, I often speak to myself, “Ok Gav that was a strong one, don’t get carried away by dream now”, etc A little like an ongoing commentary and pep talk. So do not worry about talking to yourself. This I simply find as the easiest way to go under, perhaps not the cleanest as some mind mess has to be cleared up at the end, but all factors accounted for this is for me the best method, and by the sounds of things probably you also.

I may write a lot more on this soon, but I would say from what you describe that you are very much on the right track for a, shall we say an active consciousness, on the point of sleep.

“Today I tried meditating. I got to that point where there are gaps in my awareness and quite often my mind has random dream-like images and sounds. I can still feel my body, though it feels different than while awake. I didn't fall asleep, except in those moments where memory just disappears for short bursts, but I didn't go deeper than that, either. Once I get to this point, I'm usually at a loss what to do next. It seems a dead-end.”<br>
The fact that your body feels different to when you are awake is a positive, it is an indication of onset of trance, if you can still feel your body, do not worry, the trance will get stronger! Perseverance is the key, as this is an exercise in mind control, mind over matter can be hard come by.

Your memory disappearing for short bursts is good, that is what you are looking for, kind of a long burst of that short burst that will allow sinking deeper into trance. But these exercises are hard by necessity to gain experience in control.

If you do not experience a total freedom from your body, but your able to ignore its sensual impulses, and hold a void of thought a good length of time then move on, try the next stage, you can always develop on the mental void at a later date. Your ability will gain in strength as you go.

If you are really not getting on with it then, do not worry too much, centralisation is only one aspect of meditation, its purpose is to achieve an externalisation of that clear mind and thought control, where as the other forms of meditation are much much more internal, If you have a noisy mind you should find you are somewhat of a natural at scrying, and interacting with visualisation style meditations. I will cover these in as much depth as time allows, when I next turn my attention to working on the article.

“I tried the breathe in to the count of 4, hold 4, breathe out 4. I find that I have problems with this. Usually holding for 4 is uncomfortable. I think the main aim of this counting is to keep the breaths consistent, but I find the counting and breathing more of a strain right now than if I just let my lungs breathe me, so to speak.”<br>
Consistency is what is important, you are correct; it is initially the act of hyperventilating that starts the altered state. Following that initial few deep slow breaths, if you are uncomfortable with your breathing please change it to any even breath, such as 2 , 2 or 3 , 3. I should have put that in the article. The deeper you can comfortably and automatically keep your breath the better, as it will help to increase trance, as slow rhythm is always better.

I guess not everyone has huge air tank lungs like me J

“I also tried making my vision go black when I had some pretty clear random images of a computer screen pop up. It was tempting to try to get the images even clearer, but I just tried for making the screen go black. Usually I have a hard time with this. Random static or more faint dream images pop right back up. Does this get better with practice?”<br>
Absolutely, The more you practice the better you will get, and at first please don’t be disheartened if your efforts seem futile.

Thanks for your continued feedback.

Sorry if the above is written a little rough, I am on my way out of the door.

Kind Regards
Gav

[mactombs]

Thanks for that reply, Gav, that's helpful for me. I think a lot of people believe they aren't getting anywhere in their trance unless they can't feel their body at all. There are a lot of misunderstandings about trances - in fact, I think it would be helpful to start a "myths about trance" thread. I don't really have enough in my mind right now to start that thread, but maybe someone else can get the ball rolling?

I've been working on the meditation. One thing I have noticed is that after dipping in and out of conciousness, my body gets feeling different, and then I think "Oh, this is a pretty good trance! I can do something with this." After which I might as well just get out of bed, now matter how relaxed or tired I might have been. I notice this in the morning when I wake myself up enough not to just fall back asleep, then try the meditation, then think this and become very much awake (too much to sleep in anymore).

Sometimes it feels like the body is trying to punish me for being excited about deep trances and the like. Like, "You can get into deep trances and meditative states, so long as you're completely ambivalent about it, and might not even care about that kind of thing anymore anyway." Gee, thanks.

More specific feedback on your article to come...

[odni]

Hello Gav and Mactombs.

Excellent article Gav, and I like the "Myths about trance" idea mactombs.

I would like to offer some ideas that might help with meditations, but first I'll aknowledge that sometimes you can go no deeper in trance. Perhaps it is due to inner anxiety or some other reason, but it happens to me also sometimes that I might as well just get up, because I can get no deeper in trance.

Now, in regards to meditation, I do not view this as trance. Although I can enter a trance state while meditating, meditating is simply being mindful of the present moment. If my mind is filled with swirling chaotic thoughts, then I am aware of swirling chaotic thoughts, and it is a good meditation. Actually you may be surprised to find out how many insights are overlooked because we may anxious about our own state of being. You don't need to go anywhere while meditating, simply observe. You might soon observe yourself going into a very deep trance.

I am not trying to put anyone down or act like a master, because I'm not, just wanting to share and help.

In regards to trance, its true that sometimes excitement about progress can slow things down. When I catch myself becoming frustrated with this, I laugh it off. No use in thinking that I am messing it all up. Then I bring my focus back to my breath. The breath will always be my guide, it never fails because it is easier to control than the mind.

The student asked; "Teacher, what is God?"
And the teacher replied, "God is the breath within the breath."

[Gav]

Thanks for your comments odni,

Very good points, I think we all must have encountered on occasion those times when the mind is just uncontrollable, and refuses to play along, I often find that I am tense, or I have something on my mind that has been well hidden from myself, which is often revealed through meditation.

Trance generally is not an easy state to achieve, and is not essential to meditation, but only too meditative trance.

You make a good point as many fail to gauge the variety of practices (and outcomes desired) that are all classified in one way or another as meditative practices, and assume that either 'Trance' or 'Enlightenment' are the only indicators of success. Meditation is an act of focusing the mind that can be done in many varying ways, and for many different reasons.

The excitement we face when we see some success with a technique will often snap us out, but as more success comes, it will not be such an issue to remain calm and detached. A similar problem plagues people with OBE, gaining a good exit scenario such as being hypnogogic is enough to excite people back into full arousal.

Thanks for your input Odni.

[mactombs]

After talking to Blake, I realized I needed to update my progress on this.

I've been doing this meditation technique when I've had a chance. Basically, I'm just keeping myself curious about what happens, not trying to "arrive" anywhere, so to speak. It's been working very well for me.

I can get into deep trance states pretty easily and consistently. More frequently I've been noticing a "turning point" where things get hard to describe. My conciousness kind of clicks into some different state. Everything subtly changes, and yet feels like everything is turned on its head.

Another thing about this trance state is since I usually still fall asleep, I get into deeper sleep than usual naps do.

Anyway, more to come...