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Post by Blake on Sept 16, 2005 19:11:52 GMT -5
Hey. Ok, since Gav isn't here right now (I suspect it's his internet conection) I am starting a post to manage the program until he gets back.
Gav has a lot more experience than I do, and I have not worked with this book before, so what I propose is that we look at it as a challenge for ourselves, and work together to test the things that Carlos Castaneda is saying. Should one of us get one idea to work, that person could then tell the others what worked and we can help eachother progress through the concepts in the book by testing the ideas in practice.
What I would suggest is that we highlight the main points/ideas in the book so far, and we can pick the latest most profound things C.C. says and we can all attack the concept and use our experiences collectively from any given week to test that idea. Sound good? I am open to suggestions.
I am aware that not everyone has regular experiences, so another thing I might suggest IF Gav's league of absence continues is that we could read one chapter every TWO weeks for a little while to take TWO weeks to test the material.
But for now let's just continue doing one chapter a week, but post on here the major concepts so we can all try to experiment with them.
I am going to play catch up tonight. I have only read the 1st chapter. By tomorow I will have read through chapter 4.
The only things I can think of right now is the idea of the using an "anchor" as something to look back to while looking at a dream scene to keep things objective, and the idea of scouts.
Since that's all I know right now those are the things I'll try to look into if I lucid dream or project tomorow, but after that we can do the latest chapter. I will post again tomorow on what seems to be the main ideas in chapter 4 so we can look into it collectively as a group.
I'm out of practice but I'll do my best to get with it since I am now substituting for Gav. But again, I don't know as much about this as Gav which is why I'm proposing the groupwork. I'm sure we can accomplish more as a group doing ANYthing.
Please post your thoughts on this thread, and look again tomorow or sunday because I'll post again then.
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Post by nani on Sept 18, 2005 17:27:16 GMT -5
I will start to post some conspicious dream-contents refering to the book and also some conspicious dream-content-similarities between us research-people. I mainly dont remember now who exactly it was, who has reported about a certain content - but later on I can look again and substantiate any comparison.
My own dream contents refering (presumed) to the book:
1. the man (with his friend) activating a certain energy inside of my body through touching me. The centre of this energy then was moving insidely around my body supplying me with great feelings and abilities to reach to distant destinations only by intent.
2. my hands did play a certain role in being injured and bleeding.
Similarities of dream-contents between the AoD-book-researchers:
1. Right from the beginning there were several people who dreamed of searching for an answer, or a special technique, or anything like resolving a problem.
2. Several people were in a certain school-situation or met old friends of the youth or childhood.
3. Linda and I dreamed in the same night of a painting and tree and in another night we both dreamed of the sky and horizon and we both had the same feelings of uneasy/fear/odd.
There was much more of dream-similarities between us book-researchers, but I will have to read again over all the posts to make a little comparison-summery-like-thing.
I think that now after 4 weeks its anyways good to maybe gain a little overview, to also discuss the dream-themes beside the Obes, LDs and other experiences, so I`ll put some efforts into that the following days.
RONNI and/or BLAKE, I`ve tried to delete my "extra-research-discussion" thread, but it didnt work, maybe because there are other replies too. Could you PLEASE DELETE that thread, because its not anymore needed,
We now have this "Art of Dreaming people please read this" thread of Blake to work together to deepen or summarize things and we have the original "Art of dreaming discussion" thread of Gav, where we continue when Gav is back - more threads could be confusing. lgn
Sending lots of best energy to Gav, Kirsty and Jo that they are well and will be back with us soon..
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Post by Blake on Sept 19, 2005 22:18:12 GMT -5
Hey, great post nani. Thanks for that... it's nice to have a summary. I'd like make a couple notes. One is that I am planning on getting my own place on the weekend of the 30th. Starting then I will get back on a regular practice schedule and participate in this program more completely. Bear with me 'till then. I am just wanting to keep things organized until Gav gets back. I am not trying to replace him as an instructor or anything, but I will offer what I can as I work with these concepts as should everyone else. That is the purpose of this thread... to help eachOTHER progress. I have read about the first and second gate of dreaming now but I haven't finished reading about the second. I do have a ocuple pointers or 'tricks' that may help people to pass them. I should note that these are only good ideas assuming that my understanding of these gates are correct. If anyone wants to correct me feel free. I have not been concentrating hard on this. Here are Gav's brief definitions of the first 2 gates: 1. To become aware of the process of falling asleep and to be able to fix the gaze upon any item we require in our dream without losing control of that item or the dream. This could be thought of as becoming lucid within a dream and exercising some control over both your consciousness and the environment. 2. To be able to wake up from one dream into another and to have a full mental faculty within that experience. This would be dreaming induced Astral Projection. Leaving the original scene of the lucid dream and initiating another in which we have full awareness. Is there anyone here that has been able to become lucid but not control their environments at all? It's good practice for controlling dream content to practice creating as well as destroying. So here is a crutch to use. This isn't full control so it's just a crutch... something to do until you can exercise direct control. Let's say you are struggling to create something. Let's say you want to create a sword in your hand. I think that some people may find it difficult to just stare at their hand and make a sword appear ou tof nowhere at first, so what you can do is kind of pull a veil in front of your eyes... like a magician pulling a curtain. The magician doesn't make things appear or dissapear out of thin air... he pulls a curtain up. For some reason these ideas of creating and destroying seem to be easier for our minds to grasp if it's not directly in front of our eyes. The trick I would suggest trying for creating a sword IF it is difficult to just create it would be to reach down into something, like a bush or plant, and grab a sword from where you can't really see it and pull it out. You'll then have yourself a sword. You can probably think of other similar ideas. Now, for the opposite (making something dissapear) you can just turn your back real quick and turn back around with the intention that the object will be gone when you turn back around. I also have a veil idea for the second gate. This would be to jump through a wall or window with the blinds closed with the intention that you will be in another setting when you get to the other side. Think of the setting you will transport to BEFORE jumping through and convince yourself that it's on the other side. Again these are only crutches. Only do this if you can't make these things work otherwise... these ways are better than nothing but you should concentrate on DIRECT control as a final goal. One more type of crutch idea for the second gate. This would happen to me sometimes when I was in somewhat of a confused state of mind and forgot where I was sleeping. I would try to wake myself up and wake up in the wrong bed because there were three beds  that I would regularly sleep in. (lol just kidding, I didn't have 3 girlfriends or anything... unfortunately), but I did have three beds I'd sleep in. My understanding is that a false awakening would "count" for a second gate experience. So if there is another bed you have been in... imagine from your experience that you are going to wake up in that bed, and have that bed and it's setting firmly in mind close your astral eyes and imagine that you get up out of that bed. The reason you don't imagine waking in your own bed of course is because then you probably WOULD just wake up in body. Focusing on the second setting is key for this. The reason I think this might help, is because we are all used to the idea of waking up from a lucid dream and that is a transport to a new location. THis works with the same idea of waking up which we are already familiar with in terms of transporting ourselves, but we can't ACTUALLY wake up if our bodies aren't there in the second location. Let me know if this helps or at least makes sense... I don't know how good these ideas are... you can tell me. These are just ways to pass the gates or at least do something close to that that may be easier if anyone is having trouble with just doing it. These should get you closer, and closer to believing you can do it. |
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Post by nani on Sept 21, 2005 5:47:35 GMT -5
Blake, so now I`ve read your post more attentively and I think your help-proposal about destroying/creating things at the first gate does make a lot of sense, the veil-idea sounds very reasonable and helpful. (Im still working on lucidity, so for me later)
Same well about the second gate, and I must say that I`ve often wondered and thought that False Awakening is indeed a part of the second gate (as far as one is lucid) - so I would agree with you that this could "count" as a state at least near the second gate, or perfect for a jump from there to the 2. gate, like you`ve said.
Existenceisadream, impressing experience with this emissary-voice, lots of progress directly connected to the book, whooo great !!
I would propose that whatever we want to discuss more thorough we could just copy our most significant sentences and put it here. Im doing it anyways or just repeat in a shorter compressed way any experience to underline what I want to claim or discuss. lgn
BTW: Im still working on the dream-comparison, thats a looot lol
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Post by nani on Sept 21, 2005 15:17:17 GMT -5
Odni, yes we just finished chapter 4 and now this weeks are reading chapter 5, so till sunday 25.9 we can read chap. 5 till the end. Maybe till Gav is back, like Blake said, we do decide to go on further a bit slower, but this we all should decide together and fix it definitely so none gets confused - but till now its still one chapter a week and we started at the 21 of August.
Odni, I also still have difficulties in becoming lucid, but nevertheless had great dream-experiences, so yes please keep on to put here ALL you remember, even it not seems interesting to you yourself, other people often have hints and ideas which are interesting and also Im just working on gathering the dream-symbols of all (AoD) research-people together, which surely will take some more days, but as more as we got as more similarities I/we can find, we already found quite much.
Nice you are back over and over, lgn
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Post by nani on Sept 27, 2005 13:56:13 GMT -5
27.9.2005-09-27
Hi folks, I got some pages written of only dream-symbols, so if someone wants to have the entire thing then I could send an excel-chart. The most difficult thing was to find the right topic to sort out all these symbols, so I`ve changed the topic-themes several times, but then decided to make it more simple, otherwise I wouldn’t have finished it till 2007 lol. So here just the elements which did appear most often in all our dreams/Lds (I may inadvertently have taken even some Obe-stuff in there. Also in case I didn’t have enough material I`ve included i.e. Odnis gfs dream or looked at Ronnis other dream-journal referring to the appropriate period)
To make it appear easy and clearly I`ll just name the elements and the name-abbreviation:
B1-Blake/B-Blank/C-CCLinda/E-Existenisadream/G-Gav/I-Incubus/J-Jo/K-Kirsty/L-Letherea/N-Nani/O-Odni/R-Ronni/S-SXY
Please don’t ask me what for this should be of help LOL, cause I don’t know, maybe we find out something later on – at least it was fun to read through all the journals again attentively.
Usual People:
Besides aunts, babies, cousin, husband, leaders and work-or schoolmates etc, most often appeared:
Kids/boys/girls: E,B,L,I,B1,C,
Parents/grandparents: E,J,L,N,I,B,B1,S
Siblings/brothers+sisters: B1,E,N,K,S
Body-parts:
Besides ankles, breast, chin, ears, foot, heads, hair, lips, mouth, teeth, neck, stomach, shoulder etc. most often appeared:
Arms: I,K,S
Eyes: I,C,S,E
Finger: K,B,C,N
Hand: K,B,B1,S,N
Places/Buildings:
Besides bathrooms, castle, church, library, hotels, kitchens, temples, stores, museum, houses etc. most often appeared:
Underground/tunnel/cellar: N,O,B,B1,S,I
School: I,J,B1,G,E,C
Nature/Elements:
Besides beaches, banana, cliff, clouds, fields, fire, flowers, gems, moon, plants, skys, gardens etc. most often appeared:
Water/Lake/Sea: I,O,S,N,K,E,
Wind/storm: S,I,E
Forest/Trees: I,E,B1,C,B,N,S
Mountain: C,E,N,O
Animals:
Besides aligator, bear, birds, bunny, elephant, fly-swarm, horse, moose, shark etc. most often appeared:
Cats: N,E,I,L,S
Dogs: B1,E,I,K,N,S
Vehicles:
Besides ball, boats, busses, helicopters, hitchhike, limo, skateboard, train, trucks, wheelchairs etc. most often appears:
Car: E,N,B,G,B1,C
Game/Sports:
Besides a lot of sportive activity like baseball, tennis, boxing, golf, pingpong, skiing, swimming etc. most often appears:
Games/Cards/Video: B,N,C,I,E
Attack/Crime/Hideaway:
Besides bombing, breaking in, fleeing, being forced, pistols, security, soldiers, swords, wars etc. most often appears:
Chase: B,B1,C,O,E
Cops: R,N,B,E,I,B1
Death: G,B1,I,E,L,N
Hiding: S,C,I,E
Hitting: N,K,C,B1,I
Merrriage/Love/Partnership:
Besides there was not so much of this thing lol: I,B1,J,N
Numbers:
Besides all numbers till 17 (except 1,11,16) most often appeared:
2: I,J,N,S
9: C,I,K,N
(mentioned) Feelings:
Besides feeling confused, embarrassed, happy, guilty, insecure, peaceful, rebellious, sensual, worried, sexual etc. most often appeared:
Anxiety: G,I,K,L,N,R
Odd: G,K,R,S
General interesting Symbols:
Besides books, bathrooms, diode, eggs, instruments, fool, generator, ladders, maps, phones, pole, gifts, ring, scissor, remedy etc. most often appeared:
Cake: C,I,K
Paintings: C,N,K
Pants: K,E,N,L,S
Special Symbols or Obe related symbols:
Besides Armageddon, cards, choices, circle, cubes, dance-yoga, secret doors, emissary, healing, mission, pyramids, sing-dance-rituals, searching for something, void, monk, Egypt Pharao etc. most often appeared:
Creature/Fairy-people/Ghosts/Aliens: O,E,I,B,B1,L,K,C
Energy-points/aura/electrical/weapons: N,E,B,G,I
Flying/Hovering/levitating: I,E,G,N,R
Light-Things/persons: G,S,I,B
Psi/Telepathy/Spooky: R,B,I,S,E,K,N
Interesting is that besides this now highlighted symbols most of all the other symbols rarely appear alone, at least mostly there are 2 or 3 people who do share the same symbol so there is a lot of conformability, if we look across.
I`ll probably continue to work this out more thorough, lgn
oh edit: and if I did forget/confuse anything or anybody then you can tell me right away, no problem I`ll correct it.
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that I would regularly sleep in. (lol just kidding, I didn't have 3 girlfriends or anything... unfortunately), but I did have three beds I'd sleep in. My understanding is that a false awakening would "count" for a second gate experience. So if there is another bed you have been in... imagine from your experience that you are going to wake up in that bed, and have that bed and it's setting firmly in mind close your astral eyes and imagine that you get up out of that bed. The reason you don't imagine waking in your own bed of course is because then you probably WOULD just wake up in body. Focusing on the second setting is key for this. The reason I think this might help, is because we are all used to the idea of waking up from a lucid dream and that is a transport to a new location. THis works with the same idea of waking up which we are already familiar with in terms of transporting ourselves, but we can't ACTUALLY wake up if our bodies aren't there in the second location. 
