Freedom, Freiheit.

[bezjak]

I said that I would start a new topic today....and I ask a question. DO you feel in anyway that people react to you and your "beliefs" in a negative way, once you reveal to them what it is you practice?? There is a person in my life who has been curious to my "religion". Of course at first I balked at even telling this person anything, for it is someone I know quite well, (this person changed my diapers when I was a baby.) Anyway said person suffered a death of a child, very distraught, upset and, uncontrolled. Remember now I really had no intentions of revealing myself to this person, but I did.....for about an hour or so I used my "voice" to speak using no words just sound. This person went from sitting, to leaning, to being doubled over, to laying on the floor. Now I did this to 1) Question why such a young being was taken. and 2) Show that there was "more" to life, then what you "see". As I finished giving thanks in seven directions to the Unseen One (GOD) the person came "to", not only was confusion evident, but also hostility. I was told that I shouldn't do that anymore, that I played with trying to control others, that I was casting "spells", that I must hate my parents so that I changed my religion, that I was opening doors to "hell", practiced "voodoo", and would be shot if I ever did that again.....oh and that I toyed with blasphemy! I merely stated that what I did was more for me then them, and if they wanted to get technical I was making a "joyful" noise, as the Bible states, that I had no intention on controlling anyone but myself, and that they were free to believe what they wished....anyone else have something to share?

[Silver MoonWolf]

Hmmmm....I have never had any kind of reaction like that in real life, though I have only told a couple people and am not sure if they even truly understood what i was I was telling them. I have gotten quite a few negative reactions online from the "pro christians" who tell me I am satan and am going to hell but I kind of expect that anyways from the sort of religious zealots who like to hang out online. Overall though I have been lucky to not receive any overly negative responses. I think you did great in just saying what you did was for yourself and not for them. If they don't like it then that is something they will have to work out for themselves. It wasn't like you were trying to force your beliefs on them, they were overreacting.

[existenceisadream]

I used to bring up the things that I practice (LD'ing, OBE'ing, dream work...) alot to people around me. I just felt the need to have to tell people I knew. The things I was learning and achieving was very exciting and I felt I had to share. One big reason I became a forum junkie (though the other was to speak and interact with others that were into the same stuff). Alot of people were very interested when I spoke of such things and I've personally have helped quite a number of people achieve lucidity in dreams just by my constant talking their ear off on the subject. Normally though they would come to me with questions after I had put the ideas in their minds of what's possible with this. No days I never bring it up unless someone brings the subject up in the first place or something that ties into it. And before I mention anything about what I do I'll determine how maybe the person will react to it and I'll ask them questions first like "Are you into dreaming and remembering your dreams?". "What do you think about lucid dreaming and astral projection". Normally as of late I'll find my self with another in a discussion about beliefs and topics about reincarnation and things like that which will lead into talking about LD'ing and the such. It's funny cause have the time I'll sort of "forget" that I do these things and I'll remember and then I'll go into the screening questions lol. I must say that 95% of the time the other person is very interested and would like to be able to learn to LD and OBE but only about 10% of these people will come back to me asking for further help on the subject. The other 5% I can feel right away either decide they don't like me or think I'm full of BS. I've had a few people tell me that I'm crazy and shouldn't be telling people I can do things that are obviously not possible lol
Another person I got into a debate with cause he doesn't believe that OBE is possible be he insisted to keep asking me questions about how I go about doing it and how it feels like and so one. I would tell him everything that occurred and go on to say "it's just one of those things you have to "consciously" experience to really understand where I'm coming from. Plus I'll leave it open as well instead of trying to act like I know it all and I'm 100% right. As in I'll give the idea that there's a possibility that I'm "really" leaving my body and traveling astrally or that there's a possibility that projection is a hallucination that occurs through certain circumstances of how the brain is functioning that creates this feeling of leaving the body. That there is a possibility that even during lucid dreaming/dreaming your really just "mobbing" around your own brain creating these realities. I'd rather leave it open like that instead of coming off sounding like what I say is the absolute truth. Cause really there's no way I can be and I'm fine with that. But if you've ever had an astral projection you'd be pretty confident that you infact left you body cause it's just all to really and I mean "tooooo real" for that not to be happening. Sure scientists have their theory's on what's happening but I wonder how many of these scientists actually have OBE's. I like to go into a field of study instead of just studying something I'd rather experience it to help further my study on it. Could you really explain to someone what sex or an orgasm feels like to a person who has never had either one and except them to really get what you're saying. Sure they could read as much as they could on the subject and study the hell out of it but until you experience it you won't really be able to have your own ideas on it and understand it at least a bit more. Cause just like Ld'ing and OBE'ing even once you experience it there's still so much more study to go into.
I think I went of topic a bit there and just starting rambing...

[osiris]

I am married to a very christian women...Its so hard i wont even begin to try and explain. needless to say i will not change nor will she i think. I used to get things like "your not going to inruduce our daughter to that are you?" And i say its up to her...never do i dicuss it with her i just keep it all in except when im here... i know it has slowed my progress considerably.
I have another friend i introduced to Salvia and he is now very interested in obe and ld...we will see where it takes him.

[bezjak]

"We" must realize that the mind (BA) will only accept what it is ready for.....some are ready to push beyond the realms of space & time, others are just looking over the edge of the "nest" wondering if they are a "bird" or a "lizard", not realizing free-will allows you to choose.

[~¤LilacSky¤~]

Bez what does your Heute ist die morgen vom gestern. mean?
anyway..I do not discuss my expereinces with folks anymore..really I have no one to share them with.
my family has called me deep all my life..I really hate that word lol!
I tell my boyfriend when I have an obe though, every single one because I know he is curious of them and wants to have one himself..but sometimes i think he doesn't beleive me or he thinks they are hallucinations..

I read tarot for my family sometimes, one christmas we had a party and I read tarot cards all night lol..it was awesome I must say..my family is very open minded and in fact beleive alot like myself so I am greatfull..my older sister was curious about obe's ..I gave her a few books and soon she had one, but I think it scared her because it was the only one she spoke of and she gave me the books back lol
however she beleives in magick a great deal..she has mirrors hanging everywhere, I mean everywhere and when light hits them they creat little balls of light everywhere..she says they remind her of fairies lol..I think its awesome
she gave everyone in our family one of the mirrors to hang in our windows, so yes I have fairies too!lol
My older brother is open minded as well, hes into the fantasy such as D&D, which got me into that stuff too..thats where I got my video game obsessions from lol
and my mom is very open too..however I don't tell her about my obes, except for one..because I seen my dad in it because he died when I was little that was a very strange experience, plus I was still living with my mom and she became my close friend during that time.
I think most folks are open minded but it is hard to speak of personal experiences with them because they did not experience it , and for some reason most folks don't wish to put themselves in others shoes in order to understand fully where they are coming from lol..I try to do this as much as I can, perhaps I do this too much really lol

[bezjak]

"Today is the tomorrow from yesterday." My son "Bubu" 10years old told me that, as we were taking a walk in the rain.

[crazycat]

I have told everyone in my whole family and now I wish I had kept my mouth shut about it. Now I am the bunt of their jokes and the cause of their problems. ;D

[bezjak]

Again I have been warned not to do "voodoo chants" or "incantations" (which I do not preform), I'm now being blamed for "hexing" someone with bad luck, though I had nothing to do with this person not handling their own affairs......I feel that because there is no true way to explain what it is I do without offending this persons own beliefs (Christian). I tried to explain that Christianity is the "foundation" on which alot of my knowledge is based, that I had researched the origins of this religion and found out many things were changed and merged by Constantin, that some books had been omitted, etc, but to no avail.....I was told that I had no IDEA what I was talking about and that my tonal meditation had allowed "demons" to cloud my mind. I almost said to this Christian person, "Judge not least ye be judged." Yet I'm sure that would have offended, and even angered this person. In the future I will reframe from even mentioning what I believe while here in the "Bible-Belt" of America, in fact I can't wait to move on, but this has been a lesson to me. I have learned people will attack what their minds cannot comprehend, and cling to ideas that are mere words to them for their actions prove (to at least me) that they are either hypocrites, or oblivious to the teachings of their own faith. Man, I feel like sometimes I've taken on a path that puts me at odds with billions (of you know what's), but just for balances sake I called my family overseas, they reminded me that "we" were connected (metaphysically), that I come to them in dreams, of some of the feats I have preformed in the past (visions, remote viewing, dream-walking, premonitions, mind reading, empathic abilities, my ability to leave a 'doubleganger' behind, and my understanding of the earth, nature and stars.) They said all these things are real and assured me that even if no-one else believed me they did, and that they loved me.

[Dancing Bear]

I read your story Bezjak and it sounds so very familiar.. As Albert Einstein said "Brilliant minds will always be violently opposed by mediocre minds" and it amazing how many mediocre minds there are, until you are fronted by them, there are so many it is not funny anymore....No wonder the world is the way it is!!
We have hypocrytes running our country's we have hypocrytes following them... I thought being spiritual whether following a religion or not was to be open and understanding to all fellow men and women... Maybe i got it wrong!!
It is nice to have family who support you,, I am lucky i have a couple of family members who also know where i am at, but the rest of the family, I am with CC on that front..

DB xxxxx

[Lena]

Very charged topic, for sure. I'm sorry, I couldn't help but giggle a bit at your post, bezjak OK, I know this is serious stuff.

My choice is to share my beliefs, granted in a selective manner. I mean, it's just common sense that you shouldn't go screaming from the top of your lungs that you are practicing witchcraft or having out-of-body experiences at night. Sure, you can, but WHY?? I try to speak from my heart, and ego tends to come out, when people discuss what they believe. We want to think our story is right. Toltecs say that it's just that, a story, that we tell ourselves. Other people live in their own stories, and their reaction has very little to do with us. Now, I know it can be frustrating when we see somebody totally emersed in their often unhappy story (not awakened). I think compassion is the best solution then, not proving that they are wrong. It's hard, I act and feel defensive often, that's something I have to work on daily.

As for sharing with friends and family, well, I find that dreaming is pretty neutral topic. I never spoke with anyone, who was offended by it. With dreams, people can let their guards down.

Recently, I've been fortunate to find a spiritual community in my city, and I'm wishing everyone the same. I go there for workshops, and my Reiki. I'm amazed every time, they speak my language!! And I don't mean Russian ha ha.

[crazycat]

The reason I let the cat out of the bag was because my sister was having obvious OBE system awareness and it was frightening her to the point she was having her husband stay awake while she slept. They were taking turns sleeping ...LOL! That's when I explained to her about OBEs.

Anyways, it continued and she became convinced she was having heart problems and was coming close to dying at those times. Well it happened one night when I was there and she was so afraid she was having a heart attack that my sister-in-law and I took her to the emergency room to be checked. There was nothing wrong with her.

Well after all that she ended up telling everyone about me having OBE's. I had to explain it to all of them. Some excepted it as truth, but others did not and made lots of jokes about it. ;D Sometime after that... last year when my mom was in the hospital close to dying she had one.

[bezjak]

I've figured out what the problem is with this individual in my life....this person wants to be like me, and cannot figure out how it is I do what I do. Of course I will NEVER explain any of my secrets with this individual......LOL attempts were made to intimidate me by saying that they could "dream upon" me and find out things about me. This from someone who says what I do is "voodoo" and that I need "JESUS". I can't believe how twisted the mind works sometimes. Jealousy, Envy, Rage, Confusion, and a few other emotions are what I see when I look in this persons eyes, the illusion of power has blinded them completely, they think that I fear them, yet it is pity and regret that they see and they don't even recognize the difference.

[osiris]

Explain to them from my type of approach. That you are a practitioner of spirit. And that yes it is rare because of the stage our world is at but in the end you have a greater belief in god and even Jesus than almost anyone. And that almost all christian beliefs and even parts of the bible would not be here if it was not for people that do what you do. Revelations being a good example point out the very obviously written word of god through the dream state. If you want some exact quotes from the bible See my thread here and i can give you more if you wish.

[Lady_Butterfly]

I think that all people should accept us for who we are regardless of what our religion or beliefs are. I think that someday everyone will be judged, and that is why it is important on our behalf to just live the best life possible. I do believe in God, but I am not an extreme "holy roller" like some of these die hard Christians. I will never push my kids into church, in fear that they will rebel. If they want to go, that's allright too. I come across more of these so called Christians that are judgemental and hypocrites, so that is why I don't believe you HAVE to go to church. It's all how you live your life and what you believe. I have inlaws that preach and try to live this perfect Christian life, but I just keep my personal interests to myself, I find that is best sometimes. Nothing will ever get resolved, unless you're with another individual with an open mindset, such as yourself. I think OBE's are a great mystery and there is nothing wrong with exploring the mind. That's why God gave us one, right?? Bye for now

[bezjak]

I have something to tell here but I lack time.....its about multiplying our numbers.

[bezjak]

Hey people....I'm out of the Bible-Belt! Can you say Vegas Baby! Anyway I'm in the process of "binding" some things released by an amateur "ju-ju" man. Odd most folks think that Ouija, ju-ju, and voo-doo only have an effect on those present/ or the object of desire, yet when I met this person I'm helping I could see them "plaguing" her. Many of them. She thought I was into the same stuff at first, but my singing convinced her otherwise.....more later. -BEZ

[bezjak]

As I was saying now that I have freed a young lady from negs that someone placed on her while allowing her to believe whatever she wanted to believe.....I tried to explain what was happening and why she "felt" the way she did, but I only got partially through my explanation before I saw confusion and fear in her eyes so I just proceeded with my "workings" without all the blah-blah-blah. As I silently 'powered' up and prayed, she complained of being HOT although her A.C. was on full blast and it was 48 degrees outside. It took a few visits to rid her of all but one of the negs.....that one I left with her not to be malicious but because it was there before her encounter with the amateur ju-ju man. (and she would not be the "same" without it.) This process took since the 24 NOV until yesterday to complete. I am a little tired from the whole ordeal but alot stronger from the over-all experience. I have found out much in the last few months and days, I wish I could talk directly to those who follow my posts, but alas....time and space restrict this physical form. -BEZ

[bezjak]

Now in the line of letting people believe what they want to.....there is something that has been puzzling me for sometime......I have a screen saver with a bust of Budda on it, and EVERYTIME a child sees that and looks at me they tell me that is me.....now when they (the children) are told no it is not, they become angry and insist that it is. This has happen so often that I am toying with the idea of truth being behind the words of babes. Not that I profess on the streets that I'm some enlightened reincarnation of the founder of one of the worlds noble religions (because I would never do that), but it does feel good to know that at least the children of this world can see the strength/good in all of us!

[bezjak]

"We" have opened the eyes of yet another soul here on this plane.....this person was confused and dismayed, reaching for answers where only silence could be found. I informed him the I could "see" his dilemma and the unbalanced nrg within him, adding that if he wished it I could bring some clarity and focus to his mind and "spirit".....of course before even speaking to him I prepared myself clearing my body of impurities (7 days of green tea, veggies, natural sweets, and meditation). Once ready I gave him a choice either stay in his present state or allow me to turn on and unblock all his chakras, warning him that there would be some discomfort and disorientation at first but with "time" these things would pass and understanding would follow. Thankfully he chose the latter and I proceeded share my "gift" with him spreading my wings on this earthly plane and singing the song without words for him......once finished the questions did not subside how was this possible, where did I learn this, what just happened, why did he now "see" differently, what was this new "feeling" he had, and of course WHO was I really.....LOL. I am just thankful he has his own belief system and I didn't have to start from the VERY beginning. My friend is still learning.....and is much stronger then even he believes. I have begun to fulfill my purpose, though there are many more thing I am capable of, and many more things I must do.....-BEZ