The Art of Dreaming Discussion

[Gav]

(Please direct all non - program related discussion to the Introduction thread. Keep this thread for talk about our dreams, understandings, experiences and meta-physics)

Have fun everyone.

[sundogs34rcher]

My dream last night was quite 'ordinary', in the sense that I was not aware that I was dreaming. However, I did realise something while recalling the dream that may be important. In the dream, I was cycling on a country road. At a junction ahead I saw flashing lights and firemen - obviously an accident of some sort. I rode on past them into a red spray or mist, which smelt like diesel. This was obviously the accident, a tanker leak or something. Anyway, I covered my mouth and nose with my shirt on rode on.
Now the thing that I think important about this dream has nothing to do with the actual course of events, but rather it was the roads that I was travelling on. During recall, I realised that I have been on these roads many times, but not in waking reality. Yes, I only know these roads from my dreams. Perhaps this is a point on which I can focus in order to trigger awareness of dreaming.
Sundog.

[~¤LilacSky¤~]

thats interesting sundogs..hmm, did you add this to your journal thread as well?
well all I know is that for me my awareness is very acute, in waking life..
for example today I had deja vu big time..I mean I never had it this big before, and the person that was next to me while I was having it..said "do you know whats going to happen next"? I replied" no I don't always know what is going to happen next"..
my first reaction to this was that indeed I am exactly where I am supposed to be and my inner self was letting me know to "go ahead" or giving me a yes answer to follow my hunches and instincts at this time..and also to accept that which is coming my way..
when the person said do you know what is going to happen next I was surprised because I didn't think people new this about deja vu and that we can actually get glimpses of what is to come..
however instead of forseeing events, I intuitively systhesize information.
I do not know if this is due to reading this book, but I do think that it is another synchromatic pattern that I am reading this book at this time of my life..this is a very important stage of my life..I can feel it...so whatever and whomever enters my life at this time will play a very important role in my growth..now is the time for manifestations of a period of a year of inner changes, those changes are being shown to me in the outside world..and I am changing as well.

[sundogs34rcher]

You obviously have extraordinary perception in waking life Lilac. This may be a result of experience through dreaming perceptions, carried with you into 'common reality'. But I suspect that you have a natural ability to do this, like the cat and the gerbils thing.
The account in the book that describes everything as energy, i.e. humans are luminous balls with assemblage points etc, is interesting. I imagine that you have an ability to feel, or percieve certain energies without seeing them physically, and I would relate this to perception outside the norm. The art of dreaming could be a tool that helps to foster and develop such perceptive abilities.
I hope your times of change are fruitful and positive.
Sundog

[Gav]

Hi Sundogs34rcher

You are very much on point with your observation regarding the roads, the trigger is hidden as it is mundane, the attention automatically slides to the more exciting features of the experience such as the crash, and the moving objects.

The mundane road however, is the key, that is your gateway to awareness, it opens with the thought of "Hmm its that road again, But I only see this road when I am dreaming" Bang - self awareness follows.

Train yourself to look for this occurrence it is every bit as valid as any self created trigger such as looking for your hands - only your road is more useful as it is a natural recurring element in your dreams.

Nani coined the term DOM or dream OBE mix and we have discussed at length in the past how we are often thrown a cue to become self aware and break through the dream (subjective perception) it is simply a case of us knowing that this is happening and reacting to it. I say simply but this is not simple .. as with anything practice makes perfect.

Very well spotted, that is the first stage, ask yourself, "How many more cues do I receive?"

Lilac:

Sounds like you are on an awakening, a good time to read this book - Very positive experience.

Kind Regards
Gav

[~¤LilacSky¤~]

thanks sundogs, and indeed that sounds accurate..lol..and yes I feel this book is kind of a tool in my life at this time..so neat, I must say I love when my life makes sense! however with changes comes confusion, the important thing is that I know to follow my myself, because whatever decisions I make at this time will be the right ones..
Gav,
thank you!

[zayin]

I just love dreaming. It gives you a whole other life, full of experiances. The more you get intuned with your dreams, the more you learn about yourself, and the more knowledge is available in you conscious mind, and not your distant sub-conscious mind. I can't wait to have more control over my dreams. I really want to get in touch with my teachers, and develop my energy body to travel to other ealms when I want to. I know when I'm dreaming but I still lack taking over them. I'm sure I'll be able to project when I want, and hopefully soon, soo exciting for me. I think dreaming comes so natural to us. I never knew. Most of the dreams I have, I've had before, or atleast been in the same rooms before. Can't wait to see where I'll be in a year from now in my dream work!

[nani]

Im thinking the whole day about this "white strings"..
How I`ve understood what d.Juan says is that the old conjurers (btw: is that the right term/name) did know, have "seen" that the whole world consists of such white strings.
And now not too long ago our scientists of nowadays first have investigated and found these "strings" as being the basic of All.
I mean, even if its still only a theory, there are several scientists who are quite convinced about it, as me too.

So do that 2 descriptions belong together, do refer to the same thing, talking about the same? Or did I understand something wrong?
How do you all look at this?
lgn

[blank]

Does anyone else find parallels between Monroes calling AP the second body and Juans second attention, defining the alternate worlds we are seeking as being completely natural.

Nani are you reffering to superstring theory?

[nani]

yes blank! and thanks, I think is the right name for it, superstring theory. Saw a film not long ago, but forgot the names of the scientists.

I think that second attention and second body surely correlates but I would have to find some descriptions/passages to compare and show that. I guess and hope that Gav will explain us later on what his investigations have brought out and what are his conclusions or assumptions. lgn

[Gav]

HI all, sorry I am lagging behind a little, it has been a busy weekend!! for that reason I will not have a conclusion for you until tomorrow. I will of course explain as much if the metaphysics of the first chapter as I see it, and you may all come to your own conclusions from there.

Just to keep all your juices flowing, and to give you something to think about along the lines of reality and dreaming, it was inspired by a conversation I had a dream last week witha friend on a gold course.

lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=it&action=display&thread=1125261053

Ill catch up with you all tomorrow, thank the lord for bank holidays!!! woo hoo , a day off work!!

Kind Regards
Gav

[notamushroom]

Oooooo.... I like it. Very clever.

[nani]

thats something... goose bumps from toe to head.

with the following I had a spontaneous laughing fit
"What is that question?
-Good question, now we are progressing." hahaha

hey the whole "kuan" is a real great mind-liberator..
enlightening.. thanks for sharing that. lgn

[crazycat]

Gav,that reminds me of us being spheres and what I was being taught about that in my dream/obe I had when I felt I was close to dying in Jan. I think this happened about the second night after I had been operated on.

For the last couple of days, I've been reading a free on-line book written by a lady who had a spiritual experience where she experience being nothing. I feel this is synchronous. The stuff that woman talks about in her book is about a lot of the same things we've been talking about on the PRL forum. I shared this with the PRL forum last night and as soon as I finished I looked at the clock and it was 2:22 am. I planned to shared it on here this forum afternoon earlier, but I got interrupted and am just now getting back to posting.

www.firedocs.com/bewilderness/
For all who would like to read some far out interesting dream/OBE stuff.


I enjoyed reading that, Gav. Thanks for sharing that with us.

[sxy]

Chapter Two--->

Starting chapter two, I had ideas when I read Chapter one, but lost them, I am going to write them down now while I read...

The string-thread Idea gets me thinking about my migraines I have time to time... I see threads if I get a bad migraine, in the threads are diamonds -triangle shapes, a matrix of triangles connected with strings that go everywhere. This could be the same threads ( more like a web than strings )

Anyone other than me see this !!!

Interesting conversation Gav. .. We are in transition.Thanks for sharing.

The book is ( so far ) , great ! I do feel a bit of improvement in my dreams , I had lost focus on them a while and recall was not to good !!!

I am also looking forward to your thoughts on the book as we read the chapters, I can wait ! You waited for us ! but review is good too so I will enjoy going back to chapter one !
LOL....

.... not too far to go from last week! he he .
I have heard that Carlos was quite the character, It seems he had a following and was a topic of question..? In the theater 2004 released a movie about him and here is a short preview.
www.castanedamovie.com/nowplaying.html



~SXY~

[zayin]

SXY
Thanks for the links, I'll check them out tomorrow when I have some more time. A Movie! That is so cool!

Gav
Thanks for that read! The Active Side of Infinity is another of Carlos' books that I have recently ordered, I wonder if it relates to the same things mentioned...hmmm. I can't wait to find out.

A few thoughts.
In Carlos' A Journey to Ixtlan, he mentions the difference between dreaming a normal dream, and real dreaming. He states that a real dream will always take place at the same time as the dream is taking place. For instance if you are sleeping during the day your real dream will also take place during the day. Vice versa for at night. I think that my dreams are correlating with this. I find my first dreams often appear at night time, and then daylight afterwords. Often I fall asleep early in the morning, and I'm pretty sure that those are the ones that take place during the day. I went back in my dream journal and found a couple of examples. From now on I will post the time of sleeping, and check the time of day during my dreams as well, that way I know for sure.

[Gav]

Thoughts and Conclusions Following Chapter One

We have a lot of insomniacs here! all on a dreaming program, quite amusing really

We do seem to be traveling on the most part towards richer and higher awareness dreaming which is encouraging.

The first chapter really contents as an introduction, although does certainly contain some interesting meta-physics.

The second attention you can quite safely assume to be the astral, that comparison will be drawn sooner or later and its yields less confusion to consider Dream Walking to be astral projection and the Second Attention to be the astral.

The main concepts introduced are the luminous egg and the assemblage point, and the way the perception and awareness are directly attributed to these constructs.

The model of the universe used is one of balls of strings, everything is connected to everything else by these strings. You could imagine if you like that everything in your life to which you are mentally connected is connected to you through a string. What we are left with is a set of connections incredibly complex and not really fit for a 3d model, so the idea is purely conceptual, it would not take place in 3d space, but is a construct of the mind, the filaments of reality. It is important to realise that these filaments do not exist on the Second Attention either, they are what makes the first and second (and third – but don't worry about that for now) attentions.

The luminous egg we can consider to be the aura, or the bodies electromagnetic field. This field represents the total perceptual capacity of the entity concerned, or to state it another way every different altered state of perception is represented on that field. So the luminous egg represents everything we are capable of being, doing, seeing and understanding. All the strings of the world that we are capable of experiencing come through our luminous egg, this is our potential, this is what makes us what we are. Different egg, different set of strings, different potential.

This is an important concept as this means that the shape and size or our luminous egg, dictates what we are, for example a dog would have a different spectrum of potential experience to a human and a human and a dog would have different luminous fields to represent this

The thing that decides how we perceive and to what we are aware is the assemblage point, this is the point at which all the information of the universe to which we are currently aware comes through us. These are the filaments which we are directly perceiving and have a direct affect upon us. Later in the book Don Juan talks about ways of breaking down these energetic ties, so in affect helping to clear the assemblage point – this gives us more personal power and more freedom of movement.

The movement of the assemblage point is a crucial thing, this is what dictates our perception. So if the assemblage point moves from its usual position we will become aware of a different collection of filaments from within our total potential (luminous egg). When we dream the assemblage point becomes dislodged, and moves about, the art of dreaming is about controlling those movements so that we can stabilize the assemblage point on different configurations and so be aware of other realms and see more of the potential of experience.

It is also possible to move the assemblage point completely off the luminous egg, although this will lead to a completely alien experience, that logically would make no sense at all. However with movements of the assemblage point the luminous egg begins to change shape, so through systematically visiting alien configurations it would be possible to extend the luminous egg to adopt these new configurations, however as with the Sorcerers of old, you would become non-human and somewhat strange. (hmm I can relate to that)

When Dun Juan speaks of seeing the assemblage point and the filaments of the world running through it he is using the term seeing, as in seeing with your minds eye. It is more of an intuition than an actual sight. We could say that by seeing the assemblage point one can determine someones mental state (as with aura reading) – we have a similar result from different models of seeing, it an interesting theory that we could choose to see anything we liked so long as we had a thought out model behind it, and it would work equally well.

SO we could further consider that seeing can be created, all we have to do is look for that which we are looking for. If one wants to see auras look for the aura, if one wants to see an assemblage point look for the assemblage point, if you trust your intuition without the tool of seeing, go with your intuition.

Gav

[Gav]

I wanted to bring up some points about Kirstys experience from last night.

lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=learn&action=display&thread=1124612809

The experience is a classic DOM, or dream OBE mix. I want to try to explain where a lot of fear in these experiences comes from and why it is not a good thing to be scared.

When we dream, lots of what happens in that dream is triggered by events that take place around or in our bodies. If we are hungry we dream of food, if we are thirsty water, if we are in pain we will dream of an injury etc.

In the first stages of sleep NREM the body is paralyzed to a degree, this paralysis strengthens as we work our way towards REM sleep, which is the most active stage (This is where sleep walkers go wrong!). If we are tired our body will often skip NREM sleep altogether and go straight into REM sleep as this is where the body gets its refreshment from.

These leads to a rapid rather than gradual paralysis of the body, which often equates to a sudden falling feeling, often this feeling will wake us up just enough to have an OBE, sometimes we will jump out of bed or grab the sides of the head board, and others as with many events around the body it will be interpreted into your dream.

This is a good start with a possible OBE, except something has gone wrong, one moment you were happy dreaming the next you are paralyzed but this scares you, you don't like being paralyzed. Fear manifests in dreams and any astral experience. SO the reaction of fear to the paralysis will instantly evoke a bad situation in your experience.

Of course the two will seem interrelated to the point that you cant tell which created which, you will just think oh no a nasty horrible creature thing, and I'm paralyzed this is awful ahh.

The more you think about how awful that creature is the more awful it will get, but the important thing to realise is that it is the shock from paralysis that causes the fear, that fear is then painted on an object within your experience, or even creates an object within your experience.

Enter the elemental or thought form. lovingly nicknamed the Neg.

Now we have decided that something horrible is in the room, and are scared so it must be that they we are scared of right, we create a feedback circuit.

We are feeding the Neg and making it stronger and more scary, and the more scary it gets the more we get scared and feed it.

I do not yet want to get in a discussion about entities as they are covered to a degree later in the book, but I will say not everything you meet is self created, but lots are and the rest you have painted a picture on that matches your perception. Some are real, some people might not like to hear that but that is just the way it us, but negative? not likely, but even if you had a dead relative visiting you who you would have loved to see and you are over come with fear, they will be to you a demon. Fear kills the mind, it poisons all experience.

In this case the fear was generated by the shock of becoming paralyzed.

Now the interesting thing about Kirstys experience is that once the entity had dragged her out of her body, she was much better, the entity became friendly, it even began to learn to talk, and patted the dog. The thing that had changed though was not the entity, it was Kirsty feeding it a different kind of emotion. The paralysis stopped and so did the fear. Notice how the entity became more complex as the experience progressed, it was feeding well.

Be it thought form, or a real bump in the night entity, fear leads to bad experience.

It is hard to beat fear, but practice makes perfect, the ideal scenario is to not be scared of anything, know that you are in control but this knowledge only comes from experience, and that experience initially needs to be bad.

Every ounce of OBE and dream experience I have was initially built up by a determination to beat recurring nightmares. First you are scared, next you fight, and then you just know that you don't have to. Only once you have been initiated in the house of horror will you begin to see the truth, the secret is not to be consumed by the horror, but it is such an important stage of development. If you are experiencing these horrors then you are on the gate, you are about to cross the verge and 99 times out of 100 the only thing holding you back is you.

So anyone having bad experiences, please, be brave and please keep going.

Kind Regards
Gav

[Gav]

Thanks for link CC, It's in my favourites ready for a less active day Do you have a write up of the Dream.OBE you mention , sounds interesting.

SXY
I heard about that film and have nver been able to find a copy, thanks for the link. There are several interesting books about, rather than by him also - one by his apparant x-wife who might never really have been married to, many, many things within his life just did not add up and wildly differing accounts turn up from different sources. Great stuff, a very good web of misdirection.

Kind Regards
Gav

[crazycat]

gav said:

Thanks for link CC, It's in my favourites ready for a less active day Do you have a write up of the Dream.OBE you mention , sounds interesting.
Kind Regards
Gav

Gav, I did have a write up of it, but it got lost when the WB forum went down. When it went down, I thought we would have a few weeks to get stuff off. I knew there was a possibility of it going down and I had been printing stuff off, but my printer broke. I don't know why I didn't just save stuff to my computer, but I thought we would have plenty of time, so I didn't.


I really didn't remember all that much about it anyways. I just remembered I was out there somewhere in space and I was being taught all this stuff about spheres. I think all that stuff was over my physical brains ability to comprehend. All I came back with of the teachings is what is in my signature. LOL! I guess there was some reason I was being shown and taught that stuff, though. I reckon my higher self understood it.

Thanks Sxy for that website about the movie. I went there and checked it out and I found this webpage where they were talking about tensegrity. If you look to left there and click on updates and it shows of workshops being given. At the bottom they have a CD music tape and I listened to the samples and it sounds really cool. I think I'm going to order it. Should be a perfect tape to listen to while reading this book and while trying to go to sleep.
www.castaneda.org/

Also, another book he has written call "Magical Passes" sounds like a good one to read. I think the CD music tape goes with that one. I would like to have both. I guess it would be okay to read other books of his in between reading "The Art of Dreaming", would it not?